News1 min ago
Covid Abusers, Why Aren’t The Police Doung More
96 Answers
Maybe this is one of the reasons why we are struggling so badly in this pandemic crisis?
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What is it going to take for the government to get properly on top of public order matters?
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What is it going to take for the government to get properly on top of public order matters?
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//Police National Computer and ANPR technology at their fingertips.//
All they can get from that will be the address of the Registered Keeper of the vehicle. It will not tell them where the occupants have come from. However, it doesn't really matter (see below).
//You can still exercise in parks etc but travelling 250 miles is not permitted under the ‘all non essential travel must cease’ order.
For the hard of understanding.//
What order would that be then (for the not so hard of understanding)? The current Tier 4 regulations in England state that you must not leave or be outside the place where you live without a reasonable excuse. They go on to provide a non-exhaustive list of 16 reasonable excuses for being outside. Not one of those 16 mentions that “all non essential travel must cease” or anything remotely like it. The legislation places no restrictions on travel in any way. All that must be satisfied is that the person is outside of home for a reasonable excuse.
//There were pictures on Facebook taken from a drone of people exercising in the Lake District slating them, but they had no idea where these people had come from.//
It doesn’t actually matter where they came from (see above).
//It is policeable,…//
Whether it is or it isn’t is not the first issue to be understood. The first question that should be asked before deciding whether it is policeable or not is whether it is illegal. You seem to have come up a trifle short on that one.
The problem is that the police in some parts have taken it on themselves to enforce laws which do not exist. There is nothing to stop anybody travelling to anywhere within England provided they are doing so with a “reasonable excuse.” There’s nothing that says you must shop locally; there’s nothing that says you must exercise locally.
Should you deign to return to your question, your “solution” appears to be enforcement of the laws that do actually exist together with the application of some that don’t. It is quite clear that policing even the minority of those who transgress is totally beyond the capabilities of the current authorities. It simply isn’t possible. The only compliance that is taking place is that which happens by consent. And the plain fact is that a significant minority of the population do not give that consent.
//Insulting?
Just pointing out the rules and regs for those who are struggling with plain English or the current Covid rules because it seems there are a few.//
Indeed, it seems there are - possibly a few more than you think.
All they can get from that will be the address of the Registered Keeper of the vehicle. It will not tell them where the occupants have come from. However, it doesn't really matter (see below).
//You can still exercise in parks etc but travelling 250 miles is not permitted under the ‘all non essential travel must cease’ order.
For the hard of understanding.//
What order would that be then (for the not so hard of understanding)? The current Tier 4 regulations in England state that you must not leave or be outside the place where you live without a reasonable excuse. They go on to provide a non-exhaustive list of 16 reasonable excuses for being outside. Not one of those 16 mentions that “all non essential travel must cease” or anything remotely like it. The legislation places no restrictions on travel in any way. All that must be satisfied is that the person is outside of home for a reasonable excuse.
//There were pictures on Facebook taken from a drone of people exercising in the Lake District slating them, but they had no idea where these people had come from.//
It doesn’t actually matter where they came from (see above).
//It is policeable,…//
Whether it is or it isn’t is not the first issue to be understood. The first question that should be asked before deciding whether it is policeable or not is whether it is illegal. You seem to have come up a trifle short on that one.
The problem is that the police in some parts have taken it on themselves to enforce laws which do not exist. There is nothing to stop anybody travelling to anywhere within England provided they are doing so with a “reasonable excuse.” There’s nothing that says you must shop locally; there’s nothing that says you must exercise locally.
Should you deign to return to your question, your “solution” appears to be enforcement of the laws that do actually exist together with the application of some that don’t. It is quite clear that policing even the minority of those who transgress is totally beyond the capabilities of the current authorities. It simply isn’t possible. The only compliance that is taking place is that which happens by consent. And the plain fact is that a significant minority of the population do not give that consent.
//Insulting?
Just pointing out the rules and regs for those who are struggling with plain English or the current Covid rules because it seems there are a few.//
Indeed, it seems there are - possibly a few more than you think.
And there we have it, argument for arguments sake, pontificating over the vagaries and loopholes instead of just knuckling down and doing as we’re told for once. Obviously some see no problem in traveling 250 miles for a stroll.
As I said we’ll get what we deserve which is why we’re currently getting it in spades.
As I said we’ll get what we deserve which is why we’re currently getting it in spades.
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Lockdown rules for the nation, in case anyone is still confused.
Lockdown rules for the nation, in case anyone is still confused.
Stickybottle
I have been living under tier 3 & tier 4 restrictions for 9 weeks. It doesn’t seem to be working. Not because of mass breaking of the rules (that just isn’t happening) but because the policy is flawed or wrong.
Roll out of the vaccine might work, but that is going to take several months.
I have been living under tier 3 & tier 4 restrictions for 9 weeks. It doesn’t seem to be working. Not because of mass breaking of the rules (that just isn’t happening) but because the policy is flawed or wrong.
Roll out of the vaccine might work, but that is going to take several months.
i would say longer than several months you mean, we are also in tier 4, as are brothers now, if its flawed no one has come up with anything better, tier 5 what then, no answer at all to this mess, but its proof that many are ignoring the laws, rules, one way or the other, going on abers post over the Christmas and NYE. where town centres are bustling, our local shopping centre was busy, even though only the supermarket is open, people trying to get a bit of exercise or have a coffee, as we did, though only for takeaway
//argument for arguments sake…//
I’m not arguing for the sake of it. You suggested that “…travelling 250 miles is not permitted under the ‘all non essential travel must cease’ order.”
And added (quite unnecessarily and quite rudely in my opinion) “..for the hard of understanding.” Among those whom you have described as “the hard of understanding” you should include yourself because you said this:
“Wales is at alert level four, meaning non-essential travel is banned and exercise must start and finish at home.
I believe that applies to any person in a Tier 4 area.”
And you believe wrong. The “Lockdown rules for the nation [in this case England], in case anyone is still confused” to which you provided a link are not, in fact, the rules. The link provides guidance and says you “should” stay local. Not “must”. I’m not pointing out vagaries or loopholes; I’m pointing out what the rules actually say (or rather, don’t say).
If the government wants to prevent people travelling 250 miles for a stroll it is perfectly easy for them to do so. But they haven’t so I assume they find nothing wrong in it. It is not for the population to second guess what the legislators mean or what they don’t mean when drafting laws which severely restrict their liberties. They can only comply with the law. Where the difficulty arises is where police attempt to enforce legislation that doesn’t exist. If you want people to do not only what they are told but also what you think they are being told you may be in for disappointment.
The government has been doing much the same thing for ten months now. It keeps doing so in the expectation of seeing different results. Nobody knows why lockdowns don't work. It may be because people are not complying. I happen to think they are not complying but that's not the entire cause. Something else must be at work because in the summer, when restrictions were at their most relaxed, infections were very low. Now they are almost at their most restrictive and infections are the worst they've been. Whatever it is, lockdowns don't work and it's about time that was accepted.
On a wider point, if you come on here and insinuate that people are being ignorant because they do not understand the law, it would help if you gained a good grasp of it yourself first before launching your tirade.
I’m not arguing for the sake of it. You suggested that “…travelling 250 miles is not permitted under the ‘all non essential travel must cease’ order.”
And added (quite unnecessarily and quite rudely in my opinion) “..for the hard of understanding.” Among those whom you have described as “the hard of understanding” you should include yourself because you said this:
“Wales is at alert level four, meaning non-essential travel is banned and exercise must start and finish at home.
I believe that applies to any person in a Tier 4 area.”
And you believe wrong. The “Lockdown rules for the nation [in this case England], in case anyone is still confused” to which you provided a link are not, in fact, the rules. The link provides guidance and says you “should” stay local. Not “must”. I’m not pointing out vagaries or loopholes; I’m pointing out what the rules actually say (or rather, don’t say).
If the government wants to prevent people travelling 250 miles for a stroll it is perfectly easy for them to do so. But they haven’t so I assume they find nothing wrong in it. It is not for the population to second guess what the legislators mean or what they don’t mean when drafting laws which severely restrict their liberties. They can only comply with the law. Where the difficulty arises is where police attempt to enforce legislation that doesn’t exist. If you want people to do not only what they are told but also what you think they are being told you may be in for disappointment.
The government has been doing much the same thing for ten months now. It keeps doing so in the expectation of seeing different results. Nobody knows why lockdowns don't work. It may be because people are not complying. I happen to think they are not complying but that's not the entire cause. Something else must be at work because in the summer, when restrictions were at their most relaxed, infections were very low. Now they are almost at their most restrictive and infections are the worst they've been. Whatever it is, lockdowns don't work and it's about time that was accepted.
On a wider point, if you come on here and insinuate that people are being ignorant because they do not understand the law, it would help if you gained a good grasp of it yourself first before launching your tirade.
So we’ve got to dance around all the semantics when basically, some people don’t understand that they have to stay in their own locale and believe driving to anywhere you fancy in the UK is acceptable?
The more you argue against that, the more fuel you give to those who flout.
No wonder doctors and nurses are fed up.
The more you argue against that, the more fuel you give to those who flout.
No wonder doctors and nurses are fed up.
So would some one explain to me why Boris this morning on TV states that he is sure that schools are safe, but going to Snowdonia National park for a walk /exercise is not
Probably because schools and teachers will follow proper protocols.
People passing each other on a mountain path won’t I reckon.
Children will be attending their local school, I can’t see many traveling up to 250 miles to attend class, but given what’s gone on in the last few weeks, it’s feasible!
Probably because schools and teachers will follow proper protocols.
People passing each other on a mountain path won’t I reckon.
Children will be attending their local school, I can’t see many traveling up to 250 miles to attend class, but given what’s gone on in the last few weeks, it’s feasible!
Why on earth do you believe it is up to anyone on this forum to explain anything to you?
It is a shame you didn't join a couple of weeks earlier......there was an ABer similarly exercised about CV19 and 'our' response to it. Unfortunately, he got a little overwrought and ended up marching off the site......
I think you two would have had a great deal in common.
It is a shame you didn't join a couple of weeks earlier......there was an ABer similarly exercised about CV19 and 'our' response to it. Unfortunately, he got a little overwrought and ended up marching off the site......
I think you two would have had a great deal in common.
Yes, we are a Q&A site - however,if all the relevant pages from Government and the endless Daily briefings aren't clear enough for you then I doubt we can do a whole lot better.
As for telling folk (rightly) what to do then you are largely preaching to the converted on here.
Maybe halfway up a mountain or out in a demonstration might be a better vantage point to get things across to the dissenters and rule breakers.
As for telling folk (rightly) what to do then you are largely preaching to the converted on here.
Maybe halfway up a mountain or out in a demonstration might be a better vantage point to get things across to the dissenters and rule breakers.
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