The Union

[Ric.ror]

How important is it?
I live in England and I don’t see how devolution with any of the 2 nations will make any great impact on my life (I appreciate NI is a different situation).

[ToraToraTora]

come on sunk you ain't that thick.

[Bobbisox1]

/// Untitled how on earth could we go on calling ourselves the UK of Great Britain without Scotland in it? We would look utterly silly and the name of our country would be a total lie..///
We could be England or even Little Englander as we’ve been referred to;0)

[ToraToraTora]

ich: ".....only be a United Kingdom if there’s two or more bits to it" - and there will be.

[Untitled]

it comes from population sunk... I think Tora believes that the country is a spreadsheet... never mind territory, shared history, shared culture, etc.

The scots seem to actively want independence... I am not sure I understand why, if I am really honest, except for the hope that they could re-enter the EU, which Spain would surely never permit. But it is shocking and saddening to see the English response to the UK unravelling is... "meh who cares."

I care very deeply. But I'm not the sure majority does, and so the UK will disunite.

[ToraToraTora]

gawd help us, the geographical size of a country is irrelevant to most sensible discussion. "Sensible" - oops this is AB!

[Untitled]

The United Kingdom of Great Britain... a complete and united island people, born from the union of crowns, centuries of cultural integration, and two world wars.

The United Kingdom of England and Wales... how uninspiring...

[Ellipsis]

> The Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland combined to form the United Kingdom

No, the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland combined to form the Kingdom of Great Britain. The United part came when Ireland got added. All that effort in my post at 15:12, ignored.

> how on earth could we go on calling ourselves the UK of Great Britain without Scotland in it?

As Wales is a principality of the Kingdom of England, we could be described as the United Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland.

Who knows what the future holds? If we ditch the monarchy, we won't be a Kingdom. And if Northern Ireland rejoins Ireland, we won't be United.

[Untitled]

"As Wales is a principality of the Kingdom of England, we could be described as the United Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland"

if Scotland leaves then I don't rate the chances of NI staying part of the UK very highly... Good Friday Agreement if I remember right allows them a referendum at any time to rejoin Ireland and that will be that.

[ToraToraTora]

untitled "The scots seem to actively want independence." - the evidence shows that's the last thing they want. They just hate England so they want to leave and prostrate themselves at the feet of Lily Von Schtupp. They hope she will scoop them up joey like into her warm pouch and cosset them from the nasty English whilst at the same time showering them with gifts and love.

[ToraToraTora]

untitled: "Good Friday Agreement if I remember right allows them a referendum at any time to rejoin Ireland and that will be that. " - are you familiar with the politics of Northern Ireland?

[Untitled]

I think that is a bit simplistic tora. They wouldn't be making the case for another referendum if it wasn't for brexit.

[Ellipsis]

> if Scotland leaves then I don't rate the chances of NI staying part of the UK very highly... Good Friday Agreement if I remember right allows them a referendum at any time to rejoin Ireland and that will be that.

I'm inclined to agree, but don't know for sure, of course.

I also think it's likely we won't have a monarchy much beyond 2066, if that ...

[Untitled]

yes tora, I still think the chances are they will rejoin Ireland if Scotland leaves and they get a chance to vote on it.

[ToraToraTora]

all please read Ellpsis, post at 15:12 it really does explain it quite well.

[Untitled]

To be honest ellipsis I don't think I realised quite what the union meant to me until it was under threat... the simple fact of being part of a diverse and interesting island state was something that I took for granted... without wishing to get all personal I have heritage from each nation of the UK and I think most of us do!

I think I actually care much more about the union of GB than I do about the monarchy, if I am being truthful. The "United" bit is more important to me than the "Kingdom" bit... and we could well end up with neither of them!

[ToraToraTora]

Untitled 16:22: The Unionists and loyalist will never go for it. The other side may have the numbers but I don't think it will be as simple as winning a vote, Nothing is ever simple in NI. If a referendum is held the Unionists et al know they can't win thus they will boycott it and claim it is invalid. In any case Westminster will never allow a referendum because it will in effect cause a civil war.

[ToraToraTora]

"I think that is a bit simplistic tora. They wouldn't be making the case for another referendum if it wasn't for brexit. " - indeed so they (those that go for "indeependence") don't want independence they want back in to the EUSSR, that's not independence and it would be dishonest to hold a referendum on that basis.

[Sunk]

Unitled,
Spain have stated several times now that they will not veto Scotland’s EU membership.

Will Independence see the demise of the SNP?
UKIP got 4 million in the 2015 General Election, they got their referendum and won. Just 2 years later they polled less than 600,000. If independence is won, what is the point of the SNP?

[Untitled]

clearly they disagree with you tora and neither did about half of the population... I don't agree with scottish independence but I do not agree and never have that being in the EU seriously compromises the independence of its member states.

[Untitled]

"Spain have stated several times now that they will not veto Scotland’s EU membership."

I didn't know that Sunk...

In that case it is by no means implausible that leftover England & Wales will be surrounded on all sides by the European Union... how humiliating.