You Know The Routine......

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58405213

[Ellipsis]

Keeping one person under 24 hour surveillance from a team for years, just so he can be shot dead within 60 seconds of stabbing 6 people, does seem like an awful waste in several ways ...

[jno]

Ellipsis, it was a sentence, I think for having Isis literature. It wasn't a crime punishable by jail but he was sentenced to a period of constant supervision, whch is labour intensive but worked about as well as it could have.

[naomi24]

Immediate deportation would have worked better.

[Stickybottle]

andy-hughes
naomi - // Anyone who supports Islamic terrorist groups is an enemy of the west and has no place in our society. //

It sounds like a perfect solution - it is just moving the problem somewhere else, but as long as it's not here, who cares?

But seriously - this is the thin edge of a really nastry wedge.

If you start shifting people out of their homes because they support something you think is wrong (and I am not for a moment suggesting that it is anything but wrong) then where do you draw the line?

Do elected vegans start pushing for legislation that meat-eaters are moved somewhere else?

Even for you andy hughes that is truly pathetic
To compare someone with a terrorist ideology that preaches death and destruction of the west to people who choose not to eat animals is the poorest comparison I have ever heard
Lucky for NZ that this particular form of societal cancer has been removed from their midst with deadly force
Sending this terrorist home would not have been moving the problem elsewhere but returning it from where it came

[Stickybottle]

Ellipsis
Keeping one person under 24 hour surveillance from a team for years, just so he can be shot dead within 60 seconds of stabbing 6 people, does seem like an awful waste in several ways ...


The pitfalls of living in a modern democratic society with all its freedoms sadly
It is for these reasons that I have no problem with governments being a bit more intrusive than the law generally allows
Basically if you are not carrying out criminal activity or having suspicious dealings with terrorist ideology then you really should not have anything to fear, should you ?
In these cases these people are generally on a list or being watched for a reason
Do not give government organisations a reason by your actions to be deemed a person of interest

[douglas9401]

You'll have heard of mission creep of course.

[Stickybottle]

No different to job creep in any facet of life
The terrorists up their game so we have to respond and sod the sensibilities
As others have said this is not another tale of death as a result of someone being know or having previous and carrying out their deadly deeds
If what has happened is offensive to some then they will have to realise that there is a price to be paid for living in relative safety in modern society
This was acted upon in the swiftest possible manner while staying within the boundaries of modern democratic secret services and their remit

[Ellipsis]

> labour intensive but worked about as well as it could have

Seven people stabbed, three in a critical condition, none dead (yet) except the perpetrator, that's the best it could be ... ???

[andy-hughes]

Stickybottle - //
andy-hughes
naomi - // Anyone who supports Islamic terrorist groups is an enemy of the west and has no place in our society. //

It sounds like a perfect solution - it is just moving the problem somewhere else, but as long as it's not here, who cares?

But seriously - this is the thin edge of a really nastry wedge.

If you start shifting people out of their homes because they support something you think is wrong (and I am not for a moment suggesting that it is anything but wrong) then where do you draw the line?

Do elected vegans start pushing for legislation that meat-eaters are moved somewhere else?

Even for you andy hughes that is truly pathetic
To compare someone with a terrorist ideology that preaches death and destruction of the west to people who choose not to eat animals is the poorest comparison I have ever heard //

Of course it's a poor comparison - that was the point of it.

It's a common debating technique to underline the perceived weakness of an argument by comparing it something even more outlandish, thus pointing out the stupidity of the original point.

Yes my comparison, was ludicrous, but it was done on purpose.

[andy-hughes]

Stickybottle - // Do not give government organisations a reason by your actions to be deemed a person of interest //

I can only repeat my earlier point, that treating individuals as 'people of interest' gives carte blance to the shadier sides of government to run riot with the freedoms of innocent people.

Check out the Mccarthy Witchunts of Hollywood in the 1950's when screenwriters were blacklisted for perceived Communist sympathies, and more recently John Lennon being a 'person of interest' to the FBI as a 'subversive' foreigner.

Just because you give people in power the facility to spy on people does not automatically mean that it is used for noble and appropriate purposes.

[naomi24]

This man wasn’t innocent …and surveillance was used for noble and appropriate purposes. Perhaps it’s time the west stopped be quite so noble.

[Stickybottle]

The standpoint of andy hughes will ensure that terrorist actions continue

In the 21st century the rights of the individual have to be scrutinised ever more stringently
Or would you rather see more attacks like at Nice ?
As I have said those with nothing to hide have nothing to fear and using examples from 70 years ago have no comparison to modern day terrorist ideology
More pie in the sky viewpoints from pinko liberal dinosaurs
I have a feeling the public would allow a little more scrutiny of their actions if it meant a greater degree of safety whilst going about their daily business

[1ozzy]

Happy with the routine so far TTT?
Seems to be running as expected

[Mozz71]

When we start punishing people for unactioned thoughts, then we start heading into Orwellian territory. It's simple to say these things with the benefit of hindsight, but less easy to fairly predict who is going to turn crazy before the act.

[naomi24]

If people are known to support extremist Islamic groups, spotting that they've already 'turned crazy' isn't too difficult.

[Zacs-Master]

At what exact point do you know they’ve turned ‘crazy’?

[Mozz71]

Naomi, someone can agree in an ideology, no matter how extreme, without committing a crime. To do so would be skirting dangerously close to repeating some of the most disgraceful mistakes of the past.

I'm all for clamping down on extremism, and criminalising lesser acts with harsher sentencing, but punishing people because they may commit a crime? Shouldn't be done.

[Mozz71]

Sorry, that should read "to punish them for doing so would be skirting..."

[naomi24]

Mozz, simply by supporting these organisations they are committing a crime.

Zacs asked you a question.

[Mozz71]

I'm sorry, I thought that question was aimed at you. I don't know, but if they are being constantly monitored, behavioural changes should be detectable.