Well If There Was Ever A Case For Capital Punishment........

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11390241/Sebastian-Kalinowski-murder-trial-Schoolboy-15-suffered-unspeakable-horror-silence.html
...this must surely be it. Unlikely these savages will ever see the light of day again, absolute heart breaking stuff, warning, difficult to read.

[naomi24]

I've never regarded capital punishment as either a deterrent or revenge, but simply a method of ensuring that the crime will never be repeated.

[ToraToraTora]

"..Capital punishment, in my view, achieved nothing except revenge" - that'll do for me.

[davebro]

I know it won't happen but I would -

Make the death penalty available in every murder case.
Jury to determine guilt or otherwise.
Judge offers 3 sentencing options - death, whole life or a tariff.
Jury decides which sentence by a simple majority.

[ZebuSanctuary]

// never regarded capital punishment as either a deterrent or revenge //

This comes across as avoiding accountability for one's actions.

//ensuring that the crime will never be repeated//

Sentenced to life imprisonment with a 'whole life order' achieves the same aim!

[ZebuSanctuary]

// Jury to determine guilt or otherwise. //

We live in very different times. There is not the appetite amongst the public to bring back capital punishment.

Juries are more likely to find the defendant not guilty when put in a position of determining whether someone is to be executed by the state.

Worse still, they will probably settle for finding the accused guilty of the lesser crime of manslaughter. Effectively meaning; the perpetrator got away with it.

[davebro]

The sentence would not be determined until after guilt was established so the possibility of capital punishment should not have a huge bearing. At the sentencing stage the death penalty would be available for the most heinous crimes.

[ZebuSanctuary]

// Human rights prevent anyone from carrying out the same torture on the guilty //

Not all countries adhere to human rights!

[Paul22118]

Zebu, you are correct Albert P did say that he thought death was not a deterrent - I agree. But my feeling is that if a murder is committed in such a way as to be seen as despicable, child torture, killing very aged women after raping them and so on; they need removing from society permanently. I do not wish to pay for a twenty year old to go to prison and have a roof over their head and be fed for thirty years. Give them a proper drop after all the safeguards have been exhausted. I also disagree that the public have lost the taste for this penalty. That is why no party will ever support a referendum - they would lose.

[naomi24]

Paul, I agree with you 100%.

[LadyCG]

I read about this case months ago and it has haunted me ever since. I do not and never have advocated capital punishment but if these monsters were sentenced to such, I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep over them.

RIP poor boy xx

[THECORBYLOON]

DAVEBRO, "Jury to determine guilt or otherwise.
Judge offers 3 sentencing options - death, whole life or a tariff.
Jury decides which sentence by a simple majority."

Outwith Scots criminal trials, UK juries cannot give a simple majority verdict.

If a specific minimum number of jurors is required to determine a person is guilty of murder, why would a simple 7-5 in favour of a death sentence be considered reasonable?

[davebro]

I don't understand your point. Determining guilt & deciding upon a sentence are two different issues. Why shouldn't they be handled differently?

[ZebuSanctuary]

// Give them a proper drop after all the safeguards//

Bear in mind the accidents that occur in our hospitals. Each year the NHS pays out £millions for the mistakes made by its personnel. Victims and/or families of those victims having to endure a lifetime of misery and hurt.

Take UK prisons. A finite space patrolled by fully trained officers. Yet we are still unable to prevent the atrocities that occur within. As for the drugs which run rife in these establishments, well... enough said.

To accept a criminal justice system where no mistakes could ever be made, is quite frankly, naive.

The killing of just ONE innocent person by the state, can NEVER be justified.

[naomi24]

//The killing of just ONE innocent person by the state, can NEVER be justified.//

We're not talking about innocent people.

[davebro]

If you bothered to read my proposal above do you really think that a jury would apply the death penalty unless it was *absolutely certain* the defendant was actually guilty?

[ZebuSanctuary]

// do you really think that a jury would apply the death penalty //

This would be outside the remit of a UK jury.

Here in the UK, only a Judge is allowed to hand down sentences.

[Zacs-Master]

‘Sentenced to life imprisonment with a 'whole life order' achieves the same aim!’

And costs us a few grand a week to keep the scum locked up, warm, safe and fed. All things they should forfeit when they perpetrate their crimes.

[davebro]

//This would be outside the remit of a UK jury.

Here in the UK, only a Judge is allowed to hand down sentences.//

Jesus! we are talking about changing the law here - geddit!

[naomi24]

And then some bleeding heart lets them out to do it again. So much for innocent people.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2421724/Revealed-The-murderers-given-life-jail-freed-kill-again.html

[davebro]

//In autumn 2022 the Parole Board is to consider releasing Pitchfork again.//

Double rapist & murderer - was recalled to prison in 2021 for approaching women. What's the betting they let him out again with a new name & a life on benefits.