Surely Any Pretense That This Is About Pay Is Now Out Of The Window....

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-65037421

[Bazile]

Ok
Have you ever belonged to a union , whose members went out on strike ?

[MissTerious2]

No

[MissTerious2]

Nor anyone else in my family, as far as I can remember. I'm curious as to why you ask. I have worked in places where there have been strikes back in the 70s, but not by administrative staff.

[ClareTG0ld]

// CTG, interesting article... //

Glad you thought so.

I don't particularly have a concrete opinion on the strikes, or the pay offer. It is, perhaps, useful though to avoid trotting out the "increasing salaries will only make the problem worse" line all the time. Especially, I'd say, for jobs like teaching, or nursing, or other medical jobs -- when, both because of the circumstances of the last decade or so *and* because such jobs ought to be highly-valued anyhow, it seems slightly callous to dismiss requests for pay rises.

I suspect the union would end up settling for a below-inflation rise anyway --7%, perhaps, along with the cash offer on the table -- just as long as it's one that isn't so far below. An above-inflation pay rise, in the present circumstances at least, is probably too much of an ask. But, to return to the question you posed at the start, I don't think that rejecting this offer throws the "[pretence] that this is about pay" out of the window. There's still room for the Government to negotiate. It's true that, as far as I can tell, the NEU is asking for an "above-inflation" pay rise ( https://neu.org.uk/pay/pay-campaign ), but that means that there's still a huge gap between the Government's position, and the NEU's: 4.3%(+£1000 one-off) as opposed to something north of 10%.

[kuiperbelt]

CTG >08.21 It's is difficult to argue with the graph in figure 1 (ONS data) in the third link of your post. This certainly
supports your argument that public sector pay increases do not affect inflationary rises!!

CTG \I think the point that many people end up missing. Wage increases merely increase the rate at which money is transferred
from one place (employer) to another (employee), and not the total quantity in existence\

Will it not follow that employers will raise the price of their widgets thus stoking the fire of inflation??

[naomi24]

I can't say I have much sympathy for the teachers. The whole country is facing increases in living costs and they are not poorly paid, but in the wake of Covid, the children have had what now amounts to years of disruption to their education. I regard this as politically motivated and that renders it irresponsible and, as such, a dereliction of duty.

[MissTerious2]

And I obviously agree Naomi! ;0)

[10ClarionSt]

The trouble is that when any union wants a pay rise, the Frank Dobermans of this world, like TTT, think it's because they are left wing, seditious, commie fifth columnists. Looking through this thread it's blatantly obvious that some people haven't got the slightest idea what it means to be a teacher, starting with the poster of this OP. These commie teachers should be dragged into the streets and publicly flogged, eh TTT?

[MissTerious2]

I have seen first hand what it's like to be a teacher. There are some very good teachers, but I still believe most of them should have some experience of other occupations first and live in the real world. And basically, they moan a lot and think they're special.

[MargoTester]

Naomi do you actually know how much the average teacher is paid?
My son is a teacher and he worked in business for nearly 10 years before he retrained - and took a salary drop - to become a teacher. He doesn't think he's special- what a strange thing to say

[naomi24]

Margo, I didn't say teachers think they're special. You must be thinking of someone else.

[douglas9401]

The solution is obvious.
A panel made up of members of an online Q&A site decide on a sliding scale which job is worth what and the conclusion they reach is binding.
A bit like the 'independent' mob who weigh the MPs in every year.

Real world experience put to good use I'd say. :-)

[douglas9401]

That was MissTerious, Margo, an easy enough mistake to make.

[MargoTester]

Sorry I should have made it clearer than just starting a new paragraph.
The second part was to Missterious

[MissTerious2]

Margot. Your son is one of the teachers I admire. Work experience before teaching. I know exactly what teachers are paid and I have worked with and around teachers for years. My general feeling is that many teachers think they are special and moan a lot about how hard done by they are. They are not hard done by. I have never said all teachers!

[naomi24]

Oh, right. The first part of your post was to me, margo. Okay. I know many teachers. Some of my best friends are teachers.

[MissTerious2]

Perhaps I have a biased view. It's not just tea cheers I have worked amongst - I've worked with lecturers too. Perhaps it's academics I have a problem with ;0)

[MissTerious2]

Tea cheers?!

[MissTerious2]

Naomi, our oldest friend we are lunching with today was a Headteacher. I hope he never comes on AB! If so, Sorry Andy!

[MargoTester]

Naomi and MissT apologies I should have made it clearer. I always thought teachers had a cushy life until my son became one. He was back living at home when he first started as he was struggling to afford to rent in the area he was teaching and I saw the amount of work he brought home at the weekend and had to change my mind a bit. I guess that's why I get a bit defensive