Do We Really Care Enough?

[Khandro]

https://thespectator.com/topic/cowardice-west-ukraine-response/

[Untitled]

it is the Republicans who are putting up the most spirited opposition to aiding ukraine... and are doing so largely for political purposes

[ichkeria]

"but what do you mean by "political will"? above you suggest it is the will to send more weapons from the USA but Liddle is quite clear that what he wants is "fighting" - i.e. direct war with russia."

He's not saying anything of the sort by the way.

But what I mean my political will is what I said: the US doesn't need to hold fire so to speak while Congress plays political games: they could send all their obsolete kit courtesy of presidential decree: but they don't. They seem to want to prolong it and cost more  lives. Exactly as he says 

[Untitled]

he says "the west has no backbone; it will not fight" which seems to suggest that having a backbone would mean fighting.

[ichkeria]

Ditto Scholz with Taurus missiles. We are apparently scared of Russia: but as I said before: bullies cower before strength and pounce on weakness. We look weak now. 
On the positive side Ukraine is actually strengthening its military industrial complex and soon will more modern rafsr equipped fighter planes 

[Untitled]

the reason we are "scared" of russia is because it possesses a large arsenal of nuclear weapons... realistically that does limit what other nuclear-armed countries can do. this is the world that nukes created unfortunately but it is the world we live in.

[ichkeria]

We don't need to send a risk troops in: we can fight on Ukraine's side by giving them the right tools: the thousands of ATACMS missiles that the US no longer needs; the Taurus missiles; we can stop the pathetic order not to use our weapons on Russian territory. Ukrainians can continue to die on our behalf: we don't need to send anyone 

[ichkeria]

Russia  had been bluffing about  using nuclear weapons since Feb 2022: the desperate tactic of "annexing" 4 territories it doesn't fully control so that they could claim the west was attacking Russia and they'd use nukes to defend themselves ... didn't work and has actually proved a disastrous millstone for Putin as he's now committed to trying to conquer them.

And they're not mentioned it since.

[ichkeria]

Here's Nikki Haley yesterday: 

"The last thing I want is to send American troops to war. Giving weapons to Ukraine is about preventing war"

 

[ichkeria]

Last time I checked Nikki Haley was a leading Republican candidate for the presidency 

[Khandro]

untitled; There's more than one way of 'fighting'. - I'm fighting ignorance on here every day (& I'm not doing very well :0).

I've been reading Rod Liddle every week for decades & he has a style which is apt, tongue in cheek & often very witty.

Fear not, I've read the piece twice & there's no suggestion that you should put on your boots & go over to fight in the Ukraine. 

[Old_Geezer]

Warmongering aside. Surely everyone knows not getting further involved is not so much about being afraid but more to do with having the common sense not to turn the present situation into a third WW. Especially important when some other areas have either already started further hostilities, or would love the opportunity of the west being distracted in order to make their next move.  These sort of things need playing carefully and wisely.

[ichkeria]

What is being talked about here isn't getting "further involved": it's about helping restrain an evil regime on our doorstep: I advise you to reread the words of Nikki Haley above: or, by contrast, remember Neville Chamberlain.

[Khandro]

Timidity can have all sorts of cosequences.  Swedish Civil Defence Minister Carl-Oskar Bohlin, warns his country of the Russian threat;

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1853554/sweden-war-nato-russia-ukraine

[tomus42]

The American right wingers are isolationist. They would like to see Ukraine as a European war that they don't want to be involved in.

Alot of them had the same attitude in ww2 for most of it.

[ichkeria]

Some are and indeed it's not a new thing: however the Republican dominated House Foreign affairs committee has produced a 28 page plan for bringing victory to Ukraine.

Which I've admittedly not yet read in full