Reasonable Use of Force

[flip_flop]

If Patrick Walsh has pushed the burglar from his window ledge, should he be punished, or has he used reasonable force?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml =/news/2007/08/10/nintruder110.xml

Personally, I feel that anybody entering a property without the owners permission with the intent to commit a crime, forfeits any rights they might otherwise have.

The burglar has died. Well boo hoo. Oh dear. Never mind.

[MrBen5]

Hmmm, its disgraceful.
The police pipe on about how you will not be prosecuted if you tackle a burglar at your home, yet this happens.
Hopefully when he goes to court the judge will be professional and throw the case out.
But this guy now has to go through months of worry, not knowing if he is going to go to prison or not.
Pathetic...

[empressali]

I couldn't agree more. Any political party that stated in their manifesto that anyone who was somewhere that shouldn't be ie in someone else's house, someone else's land, etc, doing something they shouldn't be doing, automatically forfeits any rights they might have had, would get my vote and many others I know.
I am sick and tired of our compensation culture, though I suspect it is keeping a lot of lawyers in work.

[Loosehead]

I agree Flipflop,the guy's done us all a favour, one less piece of thieving scum. I really hope the police drop this, I mean what is their game? I cannot see how a prosecution is in the public interest. I'd buy the guy drink if he lived round here!

[jake-the-peg]

So lets say it's slightly different - the guy apprehend the burglar ties him up and then - "after an exchange of words" throws him from the window still tied up.

That's simple murder.

We have a general principal in law in this country that you'r allowed to commit a crime to prevent a greater crime

Not the other way around.

You can steal a car to prevent a robbery, you can't commit murder to prevent a burglary.

A lot of this case will depend on the detail.

Did he 'need' to push him out of the window to protect himself - or did he do it say "for a laugh?"

I don't think you can possibly know from this story

[Loosehead]

ok jake under the current law you are correct. The current law is an ass. This guy should forfit his rights when he decides to violate another person property, end of.

[jake-the-peg]

So you're suggesting a return of capital punishment for burglary?

Not even capital punishment really is it? no arrest, no trial no jury!

We have a name for that don't we?

[Shadow Man]

I am not a bravado type guy but I can guarantee that if I discovered a burglar in my home he or she would die. I can also guarantee that i would get off with any stupid charges.

As said the man is hero. I'll buy him a pint.

[Loosehead]

come on jake even a iberal like you can see what being said here. if a burglar knows he had good chance of death he would not do it. They are lowlife scum who should leave their "rights" at my front gate if they're going to violate my space. Why can't you see that? what would you do? invite them in for a guided tour and help them out to the car with their swag?

[BIG DAD]

Jake you always harp on about their rights, just admit they have no rights the moment they want to steal my hard earned property.

[BIG DAD]

It pi$$es me off that i can work all my life to build up my home and improve my lifestylefor my family, then some scumbag can come along and steal it violating my space and scaring the hell out of my family at the same time. what can i do, call the police who cant be ar$ed doing anything but giving me a crime number then spend weeks arguing with the insurance company about my claim. If the burgler is caught he gets a slap on the wrist. They say crime doesnt pay, not sure myself.

[NJOK]

Burglars should have their hands cut off.

And adulterous women should be stoned.

Sound good?

[someonesgirl]

isnt there some rule that if the burglar is downstairs and you hit them them you get done, but if they go upstairs and you hit them they get done??

I say that if someone breaks into your house, they are askin for a kick in.

[meglet]

Jake, I'm with you. I'm quite saddened by people's attitiude that the burglar should be prepared to forfeit their right to life when entering someone's property. I'm in no way condoning what the burglar did and I too would be terrified if it happened to me but I feel the "punishment" far outweighs the crime. If this type of action was not investigated by the police then society would descend into lawless anarchy.

[NJOK]

I love all this proud, chest-puffing 'an Englishman's home is his castle' bullsh*t.

I might be way off mark here but could t be that this is a front for what is basically seedy materialism?

Seriously, you'd rather kill a human than lose your DVD player and your jewellery? Is that what we've come to?

[Shadow Man]

someonesgirl, I guess you are screwed if you live in a bungalow then.

But no, there is no such law.

[vehelpfulguy]

>So you're suggesting a return of capital punishment for burglary?

Human society is a very delicate thing and it can only exist if the majority of people obey the rules.

When you get people getting shot in the street, regular muggings, people breaking into houses and so on then society starts to break down and you get anarchy.

There are far too many people who feel they can break into peoples houses, and even if they get caught it is slap on the wrist.

I saw a case a few months ago about a guy who had committed about 100 burglaries (cannot remember exact figure) and he got less than a year in prison (about 3 days per crime).

Where is the deterrent in that ?

If a burgler knew that breaking into a house would get them 5 years in prison the first time, the second time 10 years, the third time life, then we may see a reduction in burglaries.

Someone broke into my wife's mother's house a while ago, she is over 80. She woke up to find this big black man in her room demanding her handbag. Surely a man like that (if caught) deserves a long sentence, not a slap on the wrist.

I know one thing, that piece of scum that fell out the window certainly wont be committing any more crimes.

Good riddance.

[China Doll]

I don't think there's enough in this story to say whether it was reasonable force or not.

Also I'm not entirely sure if risking you're own life t confront a burglar, (they could potentially beat you up) is entirely the best way forward.

If we just had a blanket law that stated that if you killed someone while entering your home without you permission as you suspected them of theft, I can see ways that could be open to abuse.

If this guy has used reasonable force then that will come out in court. That he has to wait is unpleasant but not suprising.

[NJOK]

"if a burglar knows he had good chance of death he would not do it."

Alright, a philosopical question:

If parking on double yellows was punishable by death, nobody would ever park illegally again. Does that mean it's a good punishment?

[IggyB]

well come on the police do have to investigate don't they, and they must have felt that an arrest would assist in the investigation... it doesn't mean that the CPS will take it on or that the courts will prosecute, i'll wait for that before leaping to conclusions about what happened in a situation where one guy turns up dead