Jermy Hunt tells the truth and it's toys out the pram again..

[R1Geezer]

http://news.bbc.co.uk...rseyside/10434714.stm
20000+ drunk ticketless scousers force their way into a football match and cause death, I'd say he's absolutely correct. Why are the Hillsborough sympathisers so unable to accept the basic truth? Yes Plod made errors but it wouldn't have been an issue if not for all those ticketless hooligans.

[kawakiri]

I was going to comment, but my view would obviously put me down for the Liverpool fan I am, so I will remain dignified and not comment.

[R1Geezer]

I have no beef with Liverpool or football generally. My "Beef" is with the current rules of Hillsborough that unless you go along with the view that the police effectively executed the victims you are some sort of heretic to be shouted down.

[jackthehat]

We are not the ones misunderstanding, Geezer..........

Had JH mentioned any of the below;
Arsenal (Gooners, The Herd) Birmingham City (Zulus), Derby County (Derby Lunatic Fringe), Chelsea (Headhunters), Everton FC (County Road Cutters) (Barnet B.U.G), Leeds United (Leeds Service Crew), Southampton FC (The Deceased Crew), Queens Park Rangers (C Mob, Ellerslie Enders), Burnley FC (The Suicide Squad), Liverpool FC (The Urchins), Manchester City (Guvnors, Young Guvnors, Mayne Line Service Crew), Manchester United (Red Army), Portsmouth (6.57 Crew), Sheffield United (Blades Business Crew), Tottenham Hotspur (Yid Army), and West Ham United (Inter City Firm), and Fulham F.C. (Thames Valley Travellers),

He would have been talking about *hooligans*...............

He mentioned Hillsborough, and whichever way a sensible person looks at it, the fans (call them loutish, out-of-control, etc) were NOT behaving in a *hooligan* manner. And the Police have had to shoulder their right amount of blame for the tragedy.

To couple together Heysel with Hillsborough is wrong in so many ways.

Can you now understand the thrust of those disagreeing with you ?

[Davethedog]

Executed who said executed any creedance you had, which was minimal at best, is completly shot now.

[joeluke]

'Executed' geezer???

Was that mentioned in the Taylor report?

[R1Geezer]

I don't care about your semantics jack, as I said above, Fan with no ticket trying to force way in = Hooligan(esue?)

[jackthehat]

No.
Not in the same way as Heysel............

[joeluke]

^ Oh right, so it's just one fan now is it?

Not long ago you said it was 20,000

[R1Geezer]

just dare to say i't's any fault other then the police and you get a lot of rabid shouting down, see above.

[R1Geezer]

for joe, N fans with no ticket trying to force their way in = Hooligans
Happy joe for N substitute the number you think, remember school?

[jackthehat]

That's probably because the Taylor Report laid a large portion of the blame at the Police Force door............

JH was wrong in linking the two incidents.

Had he linked Heysel with this one; <March 1978, a full-scale riot broke out at The Den during an FA Cup quarter-final between Millwall and Ipswich> he would have had almost everyone nodding their heads......................he didn't. He was wrong. So are you.

End of.

[R1Geezer]

fans contributed to the death of other fans, end of.

[jackthehat]

Ah, so they weren't *hooligans* and therefore shouldn't have been mentioned by JH ?

Thought so.

Cheers.

(NOW it's 'End of').

[joeluke]

Geezer

http://en.wikipedia.o.../Football_hooliganism

Hooligans are fans who fight rivals fans or cause damage to property inside grounds and around the streets near stadia

NOT dishonest fans without tickets trying to get in to see a game without paying

[R1Geezer]

see my equation above many seem to have difficulty with it. N fans without tickets forcing way in = Hooligans, geddit? end of.

[R1Geezer]

would you prefer the term "trespassers" then? Stop playing semantics, you all know what I'm saying. End of.

[jake-the-peg]

It never ceases to amaze me that we can have long inquiries by eminent people digging into all the facts interviewing hundreds of people and producing well thought out conclusions.

And still certain sorts of people know better usually from an indepth analysis of their own prejudices, media coverage and in depth discussions with their mates.

Truely the "I reckon" culture is well embedded

[jackthehat]

Why on earth should I be expected to 'get' a fallacious argument ?

Hooligans = Hooligans
Ticketless fans = ticketless fans

NOW do you geddit ?

[Gromit]

// The force of numbers smashed two crash barriers in one of the central pens and propelled many fans into the front fence. But police watching on video cameras assumed it was an attempted pitch invasion. So instead of summoning ambulances, they called for dog handlers. //

The police treated the unfolding disaster as an hooligan situation which was totally wrong. That is why they briefed the journalists immediately after the deaths about hooligans and fans pissing on the dead. Which is why Geezer to this day believes it was hooliganism which was to blame when a thorough and independent Inquiry found nothing of the sort.

And then the CCTV video of what really happened at the gates mysteriously disappeared after South Yorkshire Police had taken it as evidence.

The truth

[R1Geezer]

yes like the inquest into David Kelly's "suicide" eh jake? very thorough!