who believes that there is a god?

[sith123]

simple question, im up for arguments so come on, (only friendly arguments) :)

[naomi24]

Actually, I think that allowing such tripe to be taught is a national disgrace.

[sith123]

no, i have been to a muslim faith school and learnt those things, but we still learn the other normal things, that is the religious side, like when christians go to sunday school and what they learn there, its just like that.

[naomi24]

How odd. Why would your Christian parents have sent you to a Muslim faith school?

By the way, that isn't 'the religious side'. In that particular school it's taught in a science class as fact.

[RATTER15]

Sith, the difference is, our children are not legally obliged to attend Sunday school!

[naomi24]

Ratter, his claim to have attended Muslim faith school must be taken with an enormous pinch of salt.

//when i was about 18 i researched into different religions as i did not think of christianity as for me. i researched islam, buddhism, hinduism etc and eventually having studied the quran and seen the ways people live as a muslim i just felt drawn to it. im now 29 and still lovin it :) //

Eighteen is a bit late to start school, don't you think? The words 'porkie pies' spring to mind, but with him being a Muslim and all that perhaps it's best I don't mention pork. ;o)

[RATTER15]

Lol, Naomi, no pork!!!

I love pork and pork pie with beans is a favourite snack of mine! :-)

[sith123]

no lol, must have sounded wrong, i meant i work there part time now, i went there to also learn more about islam

[naomi24]

Sith, people who lie need to have good memories - and that's something your God hasn't endowed you with. Perhaps you should take it up with him.

[RATTER15]

sith123 :-))

[sith123]

"sith people who lie need to have good memories"

im not lying.

[sith123]

oh, and another thing, "people who lie need to have good memories. perhaps that's something your god hasn't endowed you with"

well, isn't that a good thing, i mean would god really make you good at lying, as lying is a sin, so i don't think god makes anyone good at lying. plus i was not lying. have you ever been to a mosque (probably not). when its a child class sometimes new converts can come to learn a bit, they also have adult classes as well.

[JKhan]

The Ahmadiyya Muslim take on the question of God's existence is that although the coming into existence of our universe, and the amazing harmony that reigns therein, point to a Creator, this does not prove that the Creator still exists today. The only proof of God's existence is obtained through His communication with human beings through revelation - either through true dreams, visions or direct speech in a state of wakefulness. God has repeatedly given knowledge of the immediate and distant future to those who turn to Him sincerely. Examples of this phenomenon run into the tens of thousands in our own community, the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community. We recognise that God communicates with people outside our community too. All are equally His creatures. I am not talking about phenomena such as random babblings or musings or meaningless "speaking in tongues". What I mean is real information on events that are going to happen, and which cannot be known to any human being in advance. I have friends who were told in advance of the contents of letters that were about to reach them. I myself have been told my own exam results, and the exam results of other people in advance. I know couples who were confirmed to be sterile by doctors and who were nevertheless given news by God of the birth of a daughter or son, and the birth happened as foretold, much to the surprise of the medical staff following their case. The founder of our community, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian, India, had thousands of such experiences, and many of these have been recorded in the book "Tadhkirah" which can be found on our website www.alislam.org. I have featured an interesting video on the phenomenon of God's communication on my YouTube channel "peace4everynation", where you can contact me for further information. Reason and logic alone cannot lead us to certainty about God's existence, but His communication that goes far beyond the capacity of human beings does. Not everything found in many religious scriptures comes from God. What has been added by the hand of man is full of errors and inconsistencies. What comes from God is always amazingly accurate.

[emmie]

no

[jomifl]

Jkhan...So the writings that turn out to be correct are 'written' by god and those that turn out wrong are written by man. I can see the logic in that, it make for a very simple world model. possibly a little too simple.

[jomifl]

Sith ..What made you think you had to choose a religion to believe in? Perhaps first you should have asked yourself a slightly more funamental question.

[jake-the-peg]

Interesting JKhan

So if I read this right your community see themselves as muslims but orthodox muslims view you as a heretics.

That must make some things awkward - do you practice the hajj ?

I can't imagine you'd be welcome in Mecca

[naomi24]

Sith, I have been to many mosques, and churches, and temples - but that aside, your story has changed yet again. You are no longer claiming to have attended Muslim Faith School, or to work in one - now you say you have taken lessons in a mosque. Sorry, but the word 'credibility' doesn't sit well with you. Please don't take people here for fools - because most of them aren't.

JKhan, //The only proof of God's existence is obtained through His communication with human beings through revelation - either through true dreams, visions or direct speech in a state of wakefulness.//

The obvious question must be how do you know it's truly God who is giving the message? Mohammed himself was allegedly hoodwinked into taking dictation from the Devil.

[beso]

For the moment let us put aside any question of JKahn's anecdotal evidence for the existence of God.

These experiences sound remarkably similar to the stories of "psychics". These people have various explanations for their abilities all the way from it being a connection with a God, through angels, spirit guides to morphogenic fields and physical process that do not yet have an explanation.

Indeed I have a number of experiences in my own life that defy a satisfactory explanation in terms that are coherent with my overall understanding of the world unless chance is far more common that seems reasonable.

Of all the ideas that might explain these experiences the concept of a central primordial God seems the least satisfactory. There is simply no explanation for the origin of the God, which by any account would have to be the most complex thing in the Universe or even beyond. If the apparent design of the Universe demands a creator then surely the creator must also have a creator for which the only explanation can be an endless chain of unknown.

In contrast, I can contemplate fields created by everything. I can even accept the possiblity of the mind interacting with them by some hitherto unknown physical process. Even the concept of a persistence beyond the grave of some sort and a connected consciousness between people.

All this builds upon my understanding of the ultimate complexity of the Universe being build layer upon layer from a simple dot of amorphous energy that morphs into matter according to very simple rules.

I can accept that all those rules are not yet known but I am confident we can one day find them. Indeed I believe we are close to taking another big step in understanding the nature of the environment that manifested the Universe.

The theroy of science and the doctrine of religion both share the same beginning. The original pixel of our Universe, Big Bang is the ultimate inception of a formless void in many ways.

Science has showed us how that void becomes what we see by process of its very nature.

Religion adds a completely superfluous and incongruous component of a grand pre-existing overseeing consciousness to guide what science has shown as a perfectly sequential consequence of nature itself.

Science has given us soming far more rich and beautiful than anything that every came out of religion. Science has carried us on to an understanding and ability to manipulate our environment while all religions ever gave us a pointless dogma that stands in stark contrast to observed reality.

I do believe in God. But that God is not the Creator. There are several very real Gods constructed of the faith and doctrine of so many of the world. These God are very real. They are a manifestation of the fossilised prejudices of ancient self servering, misogynistic, goat herders.

Those who hold these faiths are doing nothing but bringing life to those fossils and in doing so create gods that poison the greatest asset to humanity. This is the creative intelligence of the most complex thing in our experience ever to have been built upon those foundations, ultimately traceable back to the Big Bang.

[RATTER15]

JKhan <<<<< Oh no, no another one lol!!!