Poll Tax

[woofas]

Could someone explain to me, quietly, clearly, and rant free, exactly what was wrong with the Poll Tax? Was it the principle or the application that caused so much unrest?

[annie0000]

lol - missing word was sl@g

[jackthehat]

As I've said before, my first job was working for the DHSS.
Our 'working manual' was 5no. A4 ring-folders which broke 'The Supplementary Benefits Act 1948..........and amendments' into managable, workable chunks.

It had evolved over time from a much smaller piece of legislation which sought to help those in most need.........and had become some sort of out-of-control monster due to all the tweaking to ensure that *everyone* benefitted fairly; circumstances that had not been previously considered had to be incorporated.; new legislation elsewhere had an impact on it, and we, the staff had to try and make sense of it all and pay out accordingly (this was in the days before we had computers to blame!). Trying to sort the deserving from the 'professional' claimants was as difficult then as it is now...........

[R1Geezer]

Community charge was much better that the current system. Unfortunatley the great unwashed, horror or horrors, discovered that they'd have to pay for local services. By far the best system for local funding we've ever had.

[R1Geezer]

another common myth Ratter, copper coins are legel tender uop to £5. They don't have to accept them.

[jake-the-peg]

Much better = cheaper for Geezer?

[ummmm]

Annie...how do you know they are on benefits? I don't work at the moment but I don't claim any.

(although it has been just over a year since I worked)

[R1Geezer]

On the contrary jake, the current system was much cheaper for me.

[woofgang]

yup annie, its personal with me too. My in laws both worked all their lives and never took benefits. The only thing they ever needed was special accommodation after they had to give up the pub trade due to ill health. Avon came up trumps with a minuscule but nice ground floor cottage in a terrace...old but refurbished and nice neighbours. THEN they used the block of council flats over the road for housing the benefit squad. The area went from quiet and safe to plain nasty, night noise, theft, car vandalism smashed windows, intimidation, the lot. Happily after a year or two, the council dealt with it, don't know how and the folk there now are quiet law abiding neighbours....how do i know they were the benefit squad? because they were all there all day of course.

[woofgang]

...also the queues in the post office on giro day!

[ummmm]

Do you still have to get giros from the post office?

[woofgang]

thanks to woofas for posting this question and apologies that it has drifted off topic just a bit :-)

[squarebear]

I always thought it was 20p in copper and £5 in silver?

[Garmard]

It didn't work in the 14th Century(Poll Tax Riots)
The government should have heeded and not brought it back as more riots were inevitable.

[squarebear]

Straight from the royal mint:

The 1p coin is legal tender for amounts up to 20p.
http://www.royalmint....cts/coins/1pcoin.aspx

The 2p coin is legal tender for amounts up to 20p.
http://www.royalmint....cts/coins/2pcoin.aspx

The 5p coin is legal tender for amounts up to £5.
http://www.royalmint....cts/coins/5pcoin.aspx

The 10p coin is legal tender for amounts up to £5.
http://www.royalmint....ts/coins/10pcoin.aspx

[woofgang]

this was a few years ago Moriarty

[annie0000]

Hi Ummmm - I know that not everyone who is around during the day is on benefits - my OH stayed at home with our boys when they were little and we didn't claim anything. I know that a lot of them are on benefits because 30% of the kids in the school are entitled to free school meals for a start, and despite the state some of them turn up for school, they are getting clothing grants as well - someone told me that they are entitled to 4 new uniforms a term per child.

[New Judge]

I may have got hold of the wrong end of the stick here, but Jake suggested that the main cause of disquiet over the “Poll Tax” was that it disconnected the age old principle of “ability to pay”.

Perhaps Jake could explain how the pre-Poll Tax system of domestic rates, and its successor, the current Council Tax system take account of such ability. Both those systems raise revenue on the basis of some hypothetical comparative value of the property occupied by the taxpayer. The charges raised take no account of the taxpayer’s income or circumstances whatsoever. So we see the elderly couple living in the large home where they raised their now departed children, perhaps living on the basic State pension paying precisely the same as the family next door, with both parents working and four children all in well paid jobs.

Those who decry the Community Charge (to give it its proper name as it was never a tax connected with the right to vote) as unfair should look at the earlier and more recent alternatives. At least the Community Charge took some account of the number of people living in a property (itself a small indicator of the household’s ability to pay). And protection existed (as it does with today’s Council Tax) for those on low incomes to receive benefits to offset against the charge.

Raising revenue based on the value of property occupied is iniquitous. Many taxpayers have no financial interest in the said property and their means is rarely directly correlated to its value.

The so-called “Poll Tax” was unpopular because a large number of people being asked to pay their share had previously had a cheap or free ride – and it came as a shock.