Prayers Banned

[jomifl]

An atheist group has won a test case banning prayers before local council meetings, is this an infringement of human rights or a victory for human rights?

[Mattk]

Depends on your point of view. Speaking as someone who is not religious I fail to see why I would have to partake but have no problem whatsoever with someone who is doing so.

[rowanwitch]

If it had any value whatsoever you might think it worth doing but how on earth would it serve any purpose other than to waste time. If believers want to pray for guisance surely they can do it outside of a meeting convened for a non religious purpose

[NOX]

I'm not sure why prayers would be necessary before a council meeting so in order that 6 hours are not wasted in prayers for the Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Pagans, Heathens, JW's, Satanists, Chaos Theorists, Erisians, Rastafarians etc etc etc to do their thing, I think it's probably better if they all keeep themselves to themselves religiously and just get oin with the business of dealing with local issues.

[joannie10]

I agree with Mattk - you don't have to join in if you don't want to. I wouldn't but would not mind it happening.

[sunny-dave]

Arrange the words 'mountain' 'molehill' 'waste' and 'money' into the conventional phrases ...

[joannie10]

rowanwitch and nox - actually on thinking about it I agree with what you are saying. Yeh I have no problem with people who want to pray but no itis not necessary before a council meeting, it can be done in their own time I am sure.

[Mattk]

Today must be a slow news today as there is near rolling coverage on BBC news!

[maggiebee]

I may be a lone voice in the wilderness, but I mourn the loss of tradition. Prayers before Council Meetings and at School Assembly are a part of our heritage. It's like my dad standing to attention when they played the National Anthem. Whether prayers do any good is one thing, but they surely can't do any harm either?

[douglas9401]

It could become a problem if every cult wanted time alloted to their imaginary friends of choice.
Otherwise, non believers could take the time, as I do in churches for weddings and funerals, to survey the decor/architecture.

[rojash]

If you read the item, you'll find that it had nothing to do with human rights:

'However, the case was not won on human rights grounds,
Mr Justice Ouseley said: "A local authority has no power under section 111 of the Local Government Act 1972, or otherwise, to hold prayers as part of a formal local authority meeting, or to summon councillors to such a meeting at which prayers are on the agenda."'

[jomifl]

Thanks Rojash, I have not seen a printed report of the case. I am not sure where human rights and religious rights diverge, but can't help but think that it must be a human right not to have one's time wasted by a religion to which one does not subscribe.

[RATTER15]

It wouldn't bother me if they prayed as long as they didnt expect me to join in, I just think it is a total waste of time and money. Politicians/councillors are paid to work not pray!

[jno]

it sounds as if the councillors were summoned to a prayer meeting. That can't be right; it's discrimination against those who have no wish to pray. People who do wish to pray should be allowed to, and yes, it would be an infringement of their rights to stop them; but this doesn't seem to have been the issue here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/...ngland-devon-16980025

[pdust]

maggie the kids at my granddaughters school still do prayers in assembly..... she often sits and shows me and tells me what she has prayed for :) never heard of them being done before a council meeting though and cant see why someone would want to.....

[jomifl]

Thanks for the link jno, a little illumination is always a help.

[pdust]

oops forgot to answer the OP

i dont see why someone who does want to pray beforehand should not be allowed but i also dont see why people who dont want to pray should sit there probably shuffling and huffing and stifling yawns at the people who do..... theres nothing stopping those that do pray either praying at home or maybe finding a quiet room and praying before the meeting starts i guess..... not a very good answer actually was it? lol

[pdust]

oh just seen jno's comment.... is that meaning that people who dont normally pray were expected to? thats poop! No one should be forced to attend a prayer meeting if they dont believe.......

[DTCwordfan]

Absolutely daft and yet another example of this country losing its common sense.

I am not religious by the way.

Why can't the council say their prayers and then the Chairman (Chairpesron to be PC) or most senior exec if the Chair is aetheist, then invite the non-believers in (how long would that take - 5 mins) and then they start the Agenda.......

[cathfromsaron]

they should pray or not pray on their own time!

and get on with doing what they are there for!

[Davethedog]

Local Government Secretary Eric Pickles says right to pray is a "fundamental liberty", after council ruling

Isn't the right not to take part in such a ritual also a "fundamental liberty"?

Not having any sort of go at the Theists. Every weekend Theists go to there place of worship and pray, that is a "fundamental liberty" and there is nothing wrong with it, what I may think of ir it, has nothing to do with it.

However if I was forced in to a church to pray or if I was in a pub and someone held an improptu prayer meeting, that isn't right.

Councillors go to meeting to sort out a boroughs problems so why should a non beliver have to take part? Not only that I take it they are christian prayers so what of the non christians.