Mosque

[Bazile]

Why dont women go to the mosque to pray - or do they .

I have not noticed women coming out of mosques

[emmie]

these are Muslim women, marrying men out of the faith, that is not cultural, but faith.

[lightbulb247]

naomi, i am not going to answer you as i dont thing you would accept an answer (so far you have not in all the times we have debated).

[naomi24]

Lightbulb, I'll take that as 'yes the Koran is wrong but I don't want to say so' then.

[chrisgel]

Lightbulb - Why do you persist in throwing in this red herring. A lot of western women are converting to Islam therefore Islam treats women well.
This is logically flawed and I've noticed this from others who are of a religious persuasion on here.
If every woman in the country converted to Islam it would still not alter the fact that Islam is a misogynistic religion.

[keyplus90]

////I don't see anything wrong with what keyplus said there. Surely he's just reflecting the facts of the domestic arrangements in the majority of muslim households. i.e women are expected to stay at home and do the chores, so they're not expected to turn up at mosque 5 times a day.//

I think if someone did not like my comments then just read your own papers and reports where it is clear that families where man earns and women looks after children are the most satisfied, children are better looked after and environment is more healthier. In Islam a women does not have to work unless she has no choice. Her father, brothers, husband and sons look after her and there is nothing wrong in that. However if someone beleives that he would pay for his own Mcdonald and his wife should buy her own or otherwise go without then one does not have to be a rocket scientist to understand which family would be more happy and satisfied. Good luck to people who do not agree with it.

[chrisgel]

//In Islam a women does not have to work unless she has no choice. Her father, brothers, husband and sons look after her and there is nothing wrong in that.//

Don't you get it yet. Nowhere in this comment or in any of your other comments do you use the phrase "What a woman WANTS"

[naomi24]

Chris, exactly! What about what the woman wants, Keyplus?

[keyplus90]

////If every woman in the country converted to Islam it would still not alter the fact that Islam is a misogynistic religion.////

Now that is a very fine example of whatever happens I will not believe.

And what women want? How do you wnhat women want? Do you decide for every single women or is it that women should want what you think they should? In that case are you giving women choice? Thick brains you are nothing else.

[keyplus90]

I have asked my wife so many times what she wanted? Go out and work and we arrange someone to look after tha kids or would she like to stay at home and loo after the kids herself? She decided the later. She is a western women and made her own choice. But I know what you would say.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, no, YOU are deciding for all women - and yes, I would prefer to give women a choice.

[keyplus90]

Have you ever gone out and asked the very women you are talking about? Or do you have to decide what they should or should not want? How daft.

[keyplus90]

And how do you know that Muslims men did not give their women choice? Do you wnt to come to my home and I ask my wife in front of you? Would that satsify you? I have my doubt 100%. Go find a life.

[RSDonovan]

Did you know that there are many, many ladies-only golf clubs? And of course such clubs ad the WI, and local women only groups that men are forbidden to use (gyms, for example).

Then there is the fact that women get the same money at Wimbledon (and no doubt the other majors) for playing pit-pat over three sets, as the men get for playing biff-bash over five! Totally unfair and provoked by the women threatening to throw their toys out the pram and go on strike!

And I thought women wanted equality?

[naomi24]

As a matter of fact, Keyplus, yes, I have, many times - in fact one burqa-clad lady offered me the opportunity to try a burqa to 'feel my pain'. Does that make you proud?

Ask your wife? You mean that lady who agreed to marry you after meeting you once? With all due respect, I think not.

[lightbulb247]

//If every woman in the country converted to Islam it would still not alter the fact that Islam is a misogynistic religion. //

firstly you believe islam is a mysogynistic religion, i do not.

secondly, yes, if islam was mysogynistic than women converting would not change that, yet ask why they are converting. I know, the obvious answer is marriage, but even than, if they know ther husband will be "sexist" why marry him? Why marry someone who is "sexist"? Yes, some, maybe a lot may be to do with marriage, but even than, they are still converting and if islam was that bad, why would a woman marry a muslim if she knew he would be sexist and would treat her as an inferior?

[lightbulb247]

//Keyplus, no, YOU are deciding for all women//

How on earth is he deciding for EVERY women???

[lightbulb247]

//in fact one burqa-clad lady offered me the opportunity to try a burqa to 'feel my pain'/

what, randomly? And besides, yes, the quran states to women to cover themselves up, but Burkhas are not mentioned. In fact, go to places like pakistan etc barely anyone wears them. It is a middle eastern cultural thing.

[boxtops]

It doesn't actually say "cover themselves up", it says to dress modestly and not flaunt yourself. Nowhere does it say to wear a burqa. It's another of these directions, that to cover modestly must be good, so to cover up completely must be REALLY good.

[naomi24]

Boxy, //It doesn't actually say "cover themselves up",//

I’m afraid it does. Read it – or read on.

Lightbulb, //How on earth is he deciding for EVERY women???//

Well he seems to be making a bit of a bid for it. He told me to try wearing a burqa – and I’m an English Atheist!

//what, randomly?//

No, not randomly.

//And besides, yes, the quran states to women to cover themselves up, but Burkhas are not mentioned.//

As far as I’m aware, the word ‘burqa’ is not mentioned. Nevertheless, this is the sort of thing fundamentalist Islam uses to justify its imposition of the burqa.

//O Prophet, enjoin your wives and your daughters and the believing women, to draw a part of their outer coverings around them.….//

… or perhaps …..

//O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way).….. //

Same verse, different translation. So much for the Koran being immutable. ;o)

If you think it’s a Middle Eastern cultural thing, ask yourself why the Taliban insist that women wear it, why many British women converts adopt it, why it has become a political symbol for fundamentalist Islam - or why Keyplus, a Pakistani, told me, a free Englishwoman, to wear one.

This is what Amnesty International says:

//”…a general ban on wearing full-face veils in public could result in some women being confined to their homes and unable to participate in public life."//

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/bosnia-and-herzegovina-must-reject-burqa-ban-2010-09-01

Who do you think would want to confine women to their homes?

Flick the switch, Lightbulb.