God's Right To Kill ?

[modeller]

I was talking to a group of theists and I asked them how they could justify the killing of thousands of innocent new born babies in Sodom and Gommorrah.

Their answer was God's laws are never to be broken. Their parents had sinned and the punishment was meted out to them and their descendants.

God gives us life and therefore has the right to take it away as he wishes. His justice is not to be compared with our sense of justice.

They quoted how he commanded the man who picked up sticks on God's sabbath to be stoned to death. It was an appropriate sentence because the man was deliberately defying God and there is no greater crime.

What say you ?

[Old_Geezer]

I think that a deity with an overall view of reality is not going the view the transition is a being from one state of existence to another as quite the bad thing that a mortal, who has just faith to give hope of continued existence, would view an end of life scenario.

That said we all know it is easier to avoid the personal responsibility of committing an atrocity if you can blame a deity for it

[Old_Geezer]

...OF a being...
like I typed :-(

[jomifl]

That's the way to go GL, if you can't convert people, insult them. I'm sure it will give excellent results but not the results you want :0)

[modeller]

Naomi This site is a list of commandments and comments
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/2013/06/ten-commandments-monument-supplement.html

keyplus //No, you don't. // That's not an answer !! You are still wriggling.
You don't know how sincerely I would like to know. Why not answer the question and find out.
Let me make it easy for you. If, as you say the story of God killing all the
babies is true , then in my mind that makes him a monster.
I would like to be proved wrong that he isn't a monster.
Simple really , just justify his act !

[modeller]

GL //Yes,the people had reached a point where improvement was no longer possible,' and that like you lot today'. //

So we and our babes should also be given the same treatment. ?
You are certainly following in God's footsteps.

[naomi24]

Goodlife, //despite their having behaved in an unfaithful and depraved way, God had patience with them for hundreds of years.//

He didn’t have much patience with the people he slaughtered. I always felt sorry for Uzzah. There he was, a faithful servant, trying to do his best for God – and zap!! There’s gratitude for you! With friends like God ….. you know the rest.

[naomi24]

Modeller, I’m not trying to prove anything – I’m simply trying to ascertain where I can find one of the charts you mention that list sins and the punishment for them specifically in order of severity. Perhaps I misunderstood you.

[naomi24]

On a question like this, it’s no surprise some people wriggle. What can they say? God’s actions are morally indefensible - and they know it.

[modeller]

Naomi I have found that the only way to get any response at all from theists
is to ask a single simple question and wait for their name calling.
Very very occasionally they will admit they don't know the answer and God sees life in the context of eternity which is beyond our understanding.
I think OG is talking along those lines.

However in the context of our life on earth I think he is a monster or as Naomi says when referring to the theists : .
//God’s actions are morally indefensible - and they know it. //

[jomifl]

This is what god does best, didn't quite manage to kill anyone this time and the big one missed completely,after all those millions of years he had to get it pointing in the right direction, I guess he find typhoons easier to manage as less precision is required :o)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kt8WTor1eZE

[naomi24]

^^Irresponsible and utterly shameful, but it’s produced by the Christadelphians, a cult very similar to the JWs, so no surprise there! Potty!

[jomifl]

At first I thought it was a bit un-christian trying to frighten people into believing in god. Then I had an attack of reality...that is what the abrahamic religions are all about!

[modeller]

You should listen to GL // God ALWAYS forwarns people of what he is going to do and the consequences. //
The meteorite strike was the Forewarning that's why no one was killed , the near miss was a rangeing shot lining up Asia and the Typhoon was the real thing. Thousands of children died which added to God's glory.
Note also, all these events took place over the Sabbath days .
Be warned this winter will see more of God's wrath. Only the Godly will be saved. All the Watch Towers are fully manned. Full details online. LOL

[keyplus90]

OK, you said that you are sincerely interested. First of all I do not believe in all what Bible says unless it is confirmed in Quran as Bible does have stories added by the writers. However there are stories of the people who, first of all did not believe in what the messengers told them and secondly tried to kill them or humiliate them. Therefore after giving them enough time and space God decided to destroy them. It does not specifically talk about "babies" as you mentioned but obviously where there are breeding parents there are bound to be few babies or children as well. But as far as Islam is concerned, real life is in the hereafter and babies, children and people who are mentally retarded or disable will go straight to Paradise which is supposed to be a far, far better place according to the teachings we believe in. According to Islamic teachings even the parents whose young children die leaving them sad will be given a better reward for their loss in the hereafter as they had to go through something that no parents would like to go through and being a father myself I know what it means.

Now you may not believe in a single word I said but in my mind if that is not true then why a single child comes to this world and die next day or few are born dead or still? No one killed them but what was their life about?

Finally, I am next to a swimming pool in my hotel in Dubai and enjoying the blessings that God has given me. I must also remember and thank God for the blessings and good things he has given me. Only then I have a right to complain about something that happened to me or my family that I felt was not right. Even then if I show patience and accept it as God's Will and as something I do not understand or can't do nothing about then according to the Quran, Allah (God) is with the one who shows patience. And that is more than enough for me.

[jomifl]

/a single child comes to this world and die next day or few are born dead or still? No one killed them but what was their life about? /
A good question Keyplus, why do you think that god blessed you but so many of the people in the country of your birth are not blessed at all unless living in poverty and misery is another of god's 'blessings'
Enjoy your holiday ;o)

[modeller]

keyplus I found your post quite revealing. Thank you. It has enabled me to find out why theists don't condemn the killing.
I couldn't find a direct reference in the Quran to the killing of babies in S&G but I did find a number of references to the death of babies according to Islamic scholars.
If I may summarise and compare the Christian and Islamic views .

Please correct me if I have still got it wrong.

1. The Christian God has the right and justification to kill babies because of the sins of their parents.

2 . The Islamic God is the same but it is also justified because of the sins the babies would have committed had they lived.

I know some Islamic scholars say all babies go to paradise anyway , which makes it confusing but that doesn't affect the deed itself.

[jomifl]

modeller, it's just as well that god doesn't exist otherwise the world would be......................worse.

[modeller]

jomfl On the other hand there wouldn't be a world population problem, apart from the chosen few all the rest would not have been born .

Which is what GL has been telling us for a long time.

[jomifl]

Well it would save them having to pay for the sins of their fathers. Though I suspect that has more to do with incest than anything else.

[keyplus90]

Both of your scenarios are wrong, unfortunately. Islam does not believe a bit that children has any bearing of the sins committed by their parents. Islam does not believe in "original Sin" and that is just a Christian myth. Islam does not believe in the second one you mentioned there either that Children were punished and death was justified for the sins they might have committed had they lived.