Three Questions

[Khandro]

With Brexit out of the way (?!) can we now turn to more momentous issues? I refer to those posed by St Augustine in reference to Creation; Who made it? By what means? & Why?

[andy-hughes]

Theland - // Talk about being spoken down to?
Do you see my point? //

I see your point - the question is, do you?

[pixie374]

Hi theland, could you please respond to my question? You keep saying it over and over again, so clearly you know what and why you think information is only created by a mind... just a short explanation is fine.
Thank you x

[Theland]

Pixie - We know that information originates in a mind.
When you post your information on here, it has originated in your mind.
I can think of no other origin for information than a mind.
A computer can store and process information, but ultimately it all originated in a mind.
If anybody can tell me of another origin, I will be very very interested.

[pixie374]

Theland, you said that already (I do appreciate you attempting an answer though, thank you). And I can assure you that my information hasn't come from my mind directly, it has been taken in, processed and I have made my own views from it.
The question was.... which information is created by a mind? You haven't answered, but just repeated what you said before. I am genuinely interested.

[Theland]

Ideas are created in your mind. You then process those ideas into language, and communicate it by your chosen method, verbal or written.

[Theland]

Pixie at 18:47 - You take in information, and process it to formulate your own ideas, and then convey those ideas as new information.
It all originates in your mind.

[Old_Geezer]

Information is one or more facts. Facts exist whether anyone knows of them or not. Quantum science tells us information can not be destroyed. Black holes must have information as there is a debate whether Hawking radiation, which evaporates the hole, does or does not preserve information (although there may be a work around at the surface). I can't see the information held in the black hole as originating in anyone's mind.

[pixie374]

Theland... we were discussing "information " not "ideas". Which are you referring to now? Ideas, even, can only come from information that is already known. Just one example please, of "information" created in a mind? As the whole of the psychiatry and psychology world would be very interested....

[pixie374]

No, it does not originate there, theland. It is knowledge, processed by a mind, and with opinions added in.

[pixie374]

Thank you, og... the truth is the truth, even if a human hasn't discovered it yet.

[pixie374]

Let's go back to DNA then, whose mind do you think that originated in?

[Theland]

Just as we use binary coding for computing, a simple 0 or 1, DNA uses four components, A C T and G.
A simple amoeba has about three billion combinations of these four genes, the instructions for building the proteins necessary to the functionality of the amoeba.
All of this coding is inherited from previous proteins, no new coding is introduced.
So, where did the original coding come from?
I say the mind of God, but evolutionary scientists disagree with me.

[nailit]

//So, where did the original coding come from?//
Who the hell knows YET?

//I say the mind of God//
Oh, ok.
That's answered that one then...

[pixie374]

Theland, you are still talking about inheriting/ copying. In humans, for example, neither is particularly true. If it was, all siblings would basically by identical twins and they aren't. It depends which egg and which sperm are provided, and everyone is different. That is literally "original information," that has not come from a mind.
No matter how far you twist it, or how far back you try to go.... which mind has that come from?

[pixie374]

It does seem that your only "proof" is the claim that everything came from God originally. I'm sure you can see that doesn't answer anything?

[Theland]

We each get 23 chromosomes from each of our parents.
The 46 chromosomes constitute our genetic make up.
Why the difference between siblings? I am not a biological chemist, so I would have to google the problem, as you can also.
Our characteristics are inherited from our parents, who inherited theirs, who inherited theirs, who . . . . .
Well the point is, none of it is original, unless we go way back to the beginning?????

[Theland]

The question is, who or what was the beginning?

[pixie374]

I know the difference. Even full siblings only share around 25% of their DNA. But for each person, it is "original" information.
How far do you want to go back? And why? Is that not proof enough that original information can exist, without a mind?

[Theland]

Then what encoded the original plan for our genetic makeup?

[pixie374]

Ovaries and testicles. We can only go as far as we know... I don't see any point in making presumptions we aren't sure about. That can only be likely to set us on the wrong path.
Even ignoring that... every individual (including often, identical twins) has a unique/ original set of genetic information. None of it coming from a mind.
Which was my point really.
I was hoping you were going to give a clear example of a mind creating unique and original information?