Three Questions

[Khandro]

With Brexit out of the way (?!) can we now turn to more momentous issues? I refer to those posed by St Augustine in reference to Creation; Who made it? By what means? & Why?

[andy-hughes]

Theland - // The question is, who or what was the beginning? //

I see you are ignoring my posts now, but that does not negate the validity of the point I am making -

You constantly ask these questions over and over again - they are clearly seriously important to you, because you send so much time agonising over them.

Yet you still refuse to accept any of the answers given, that don't chime with your view, that 'God' made everything.

If you believe that, why are you not content with that? Why must you sway everyone to your viewpoint?

Why does it matter to you that people think as you do?

You should try my approach - I genuinely have no interest in where I came from or why I am here. I can't think my life will be enhanced one iota by such knowledge, so I spend my time enjoying my life.

You seem to spend your time wondering and hand-wringing, and getting into pointless fruitless arguments on here.

Why do you do it, is a more easily answered question - if you would like to address it?

[Theland]

How about Shakespeare?

[pixie374]

What about him, theland? He had half of each of his parents DNA and an imagination. What point is he proving?

[Theland]

Andy - I am not ignoring you. Neither am I trying to bend anybody's viewpoint to agree with mine.
I am simply trying my best to answer questions put to me, nothing more, and offering my opinions.
I don't think you will find any threads on here started by me, for a while.
I am not trying to provoke anything.

[Theland]

The point is, all of his plays originated in his mind, none were gleaned from any other source.

[Theland]

Andy - I am guilty only in engaging in discussion.
I just happen to disagree with some others views, but then, that is surely the point of discussion?

[pixie374]

I don't agree at all.... if it literally all originated in his mind, he wouldn't even have written them in English. He wouldn't have known it... also love, death, tragedy, etc etc... all of it "learnt". The words may have been put an an "original" order. But that is all.

[Theland]

Pixie - now you are confusing me.

[pixie374]

Shakespeare's plays gave no original information. Anyone can create a story, poem, play, from their existing knowledge and experience.
We were looking for "original information" though. And Shakespeare is no example of that. He used a mixture of what he was taught, his genetics, his talent, his education of English... etc. But it is not original information.

[andy-hughes]

Theland - // Andy - I am guilty only in engaging in discussion.
I just happen to disagree with some others views, but then, that is surely the point of discussion? //

OK then - address my last post to you, and we can have a discussion.

[Theland]

Andy at 19:41 - You have made many points. Regarding your Moderator posts, they are wasted on me, Inhave no interest.
As for swaying others belief to my own, I simply express my opinion.
Why that riles some folk is a mystery to me, as I am only answering questions or responding to comments made.

[Theland]

Pixie - Are you therefore claiming that we cannot be creative and pass on information that has originated within our own minds?

[andy-hughes]

Theland - // Andy at 19:41 - You have made many points. Regarding your Moderator posts, they are wasted on me, Inhave no interest.
As for swaying others belief to my own, I simply express my opinion. //

I know that your perception of yourself is very different from the perception of others, myself included, but the post I would like a response to is this one -

// You seem to spend your time wondering and hand-wringing, and getting into pointless fruitless arguments on here.

Why do you do it, is a more easily answered question - if you would like to address it? //

Why do you argue fruitlessly day in day out?

[pixie374]

Of course we can be creative, theland. I am just saying that no "information" is created within our own minds. We learn, interpret, think etc, with what we pick up, but it is not original.
I would still please like to see an example of something that definitively is created within a mind. You do seem very sure of this, as you keep claiming it.... so I am equally sure you can explain and prove why x

[Theland]

Andy at 20:58 - If science has an answer to the big questions, the origin of the universe, the origin of life, the proof and validity of evolution, then I am very interested.
I am not fruitlessly hand wringing but only showing a willingness to discuss and exchange ideas.
Up to now, I have not come across anything that science has to offer, to satisfy my curiosity.
Is that such a bad thing and reason to criticise me?

[Theland]

Andy - What do you think of Pixies post at 20:58?

[andy-hughes]

Theland - // Is that such a bad thing and reason to criticise me? //

That is not why I criticise you - I criticise you for being unable to accept that there are other points of view that do not involve God, or indeed involve nothing at all, such as mine.

You feel free to criticise me for my view - calling me ignorant as I recall, I simply return the compliment.

[andy-hughes]

Theland - // Andy - What do you think of Pixies post at 20:58? //

I think she shows the patience of a saint, and she clearly believes she can get a straight answer out of you.

Her ambition is to be applauded.

[Theland]

Andy - As I recall, I did not call you ignorant as an insult, but stated that you were ignorant of the subject matter under discussion, the Bible I think.
I do apologise for any offence caused.

[naomi24]

Theland, //…as if I am rejecting perfectly reasonable answers.//

You are.

However you seem to have moved on to other things. Information is not created in the mind. Information is eternal and discovery is the key. Without discovery the mind remains ignorant.