2 women equal one man...

[Goodsoulette]

I have been reading up a bit on Islam and a bit to do with sharia law, only so I feel I can better defend my muslim friends when they are getting a verbal battering behind their backs.
The adultery and rape bit has stumped me a bit. Basically both have to be witnessed (unless confessed to) by 4 male witnesses or 8 female witnesses (because 2 women equal one man).

Can someone tell me why this? Who decided that?

I understand where the decision on the number of men came from but why twice as many women.

I really, really do not want this thread to turn into another anti-Muslim thread. I am just curious.

[naomi24]

I can't give you an accurate answer, but I can take an educated guess that men decided it.

[Goodsoulette]

Thats what I was thinking. Why is there such global repression of women?

[Lonnie]

When you take into account, that religion as we know it, was invented by men, for men, (i'm agreeing with you naomi), and as some sects of westernised religion have com, and are coming upto date, the Sharia version is stuck in the middle ages, and have no intention of modernising, that way, power is always with the man, and woman is always subjugated.

[reachesme]

It's not rocket science to understand why the women are not equal, next time you see a Muslim male, have a good look and understand why Muslim men are so insecure, most of them are a bag of bones or as fat as Fern Britton and none too bright, whilst their women can be the most beautiful you will ever see and very bright. Most of the Muslim lawyers are women, have you noticed that and they are the only comprehendible face of Islam on the TV. Not only do they have to cover up and lead life as a second class citizen, a lot of the women have their clitoris cut off so they get no enjoyment from sex, and some have their vagina sewn up, so sex hurts, that�s a manly thing to do. The men are paranoid because they are weak uphill gardeners, who have sex with one another in the hope they will give birth to Mohammed, they are pathetic excuses for men, that is why they are terrorists, they wont stand face to face and fight. It's such a shame the women listen to their rubbish over here and not try and get some equality in this country for themselves, they could probably change the whole atmosphere and maybe we could get along. And I know you are going to think me racist and rude, I don�t give a monkey�s testicle, the truth will always hurt and I am fed up with being told what I have to think.

[Goodsoulette]

What brilliant sweeping statements!!

Why cant you make a sweeping statement like most muslim me are alright. Most arent terrorists etc etc because that in fact is the truth.

Its not like women are much better regarded here is it, lest we forget real progress has only been happening in the last 30 yrs or so for womens rights.

[reachesme]

Sweeping statements, there is nothing wrong with a bit of stereo typing, otherwise you would have to give 2500 million different views. Most of the time everyone lives a stereo typical life, what is, is, it may not suit some but thats the way it is. We have talked on here about terrorism time and time again and i am still waiting to hear a muslim condem it. You asked for comments on Muslims, the question was minoritorised at the begining, you wanted to chuck them all in the same bucket to begin with.

[Goodsoulette]

I asked a question about Islam, not your personal view on Muslims. I wanted a genuine answer about where 2 women equalled one man. Not an opinion a real answer. Which is the very reason I added that I didnt want it to turn into an anti~muslim thread.

[reachesme]

Ok, if women were equil, they would take over the religion in weeks and all marry a men from more progressive backgrounds because their women are brighter and more attractive. The poor women have a terrible life, Is that ok? I am affraid it's still only my view as i don't have thier gods phone number for the full story? Islam has nothing to do with it, the Koran is a different book than it is portrayed by some of these people, the Koran is a peacfull book.

[reachesme]

With equality.

[Goodsoulette]

and with that aspect I entirely agree, as obviously not one of my muslim friends are like your statement and yes, I have some exceptionally attractive male ********** friends and I appen to think Indian boys can be very beautiful.

However, all muslims are fat terrorists is a bit like me saying ALL middleaged caucasian men are fat balding kiddie fiddlers.

[Goodsoulette]

for some reason im not allowed to P@kistani.... for crying out loud

[Goodsoulette]

hmmm well writing Pakistani works in suggestions

[reachesme]

I bet you a pound they are westernised.
The french are up thier own arse, is that stereotyping?
Machanics are rip off merchants, is that stereotypingng?
Men are Ba****** is that stereo typing?
And show me a good looking somalian bloke...
Plus it wasn't me that made up the joke, what do you call a good looking pakistani?
Asif.

[reachesme]

And i didn't say 'all'. ffs. You can't ask sweeping questions about minorities and them complain the thread turns anti whatever, if you only wanted pro Islamic views, you should join a Muslim forum. I on the other hand find it the second most pathetic mass religion on the planet, just behind Catholicism, now there is a joke of a religion, the popes a nazi, hahahahahahahahahahaha. Sorry, hail mary, hail mary, hail mary.

[Goodsoulette]

Whats being westernised got to do with looks lol?

In all honesty, I didnt want any views, I know why they wanted 4 men to bear witness but I wanted an actual answer, a factual one as to why 2 women are the equivilent of one man.

[Skreecheeboy]

Hi Goodsoulette, I'm not a muslim but I reckon it's something to do with the sex of the victim being the same as the witnesses. Does it mention how many male witnesses there would have to be of a man getting raped by a woman or is it pointless for the people who made the Koran to go into it as it's obvious if there were 8 men standing around watching, there would be queue to save the intended victim?

[dunwerkin]

Hi Goodsoulette and all other contributors. May I join the discussion? This is not a definitive answer, nor meant to be contentious - just an opinion. That's got the apologies out of the way before someone gets offended !

The 2:1 ratio might be that when the Koran was written, 2000 yrs ago (give or take a hundred) women 'belonged' to men - whether it was daughters or wives. They were not educated and, as is recognised, were (are) second class citizens whose opinions would have been next to worthless - ergo, two women required to bring the equivalent level of rational thinking as a man.

There's a new thread - rationalism-v-men, be they Muslim or otherwise !! Sorry guys - that was uncalled for, but it was meant in fun. Rather like 'why do women have small feet' ! (to get closer to the sink). OK - honours even?

If you are interested in women's role in Islam there is a web site where a Pakistani official freely admits that the Koran's edict of 'equality for all' is ignored/abused by men where women are concerned.

[RATTER15]

Reachme: these are quotes from this peaceful book, The Koran:

This is what you must do to be a true Muslim


Q 2:190-3

Fight for the sake of God those that fight against you, but do not attack them first. God does not love the aggressors.

Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage.


Q 9:5

When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them.


"Idolaters" are anybody that believes in any god or Idol, because that goes against the Koran, THAT INCLUDES CHRISTIANS!!!

Sorry Goodsoulette!!!