The Historical Jesus.

[Theland]

Compared to other people in history, there is a wealth of documents to support the existence of Jesus, and His ministry on Earth, yet critics pour scorn on His very existence, but have no trouble believing in other figures for which there is only fractional evidence.
Is this a correct assertion that I have made, or am I somehow mistaken?
The scorn, that is, not the existence of Jesus.

[jackthehat]

Tiny Denis make a ****-up there...................we went from 1 BC to 1 AD without passing through the year 0...........and that was in 525 so-defined !

[Theland]

Doc Spock - "Him," is a habit born of respect for the God I believe in.
It is not, I assure you, a problem for me.

[Doc Spock]

You need to get out more Theland.

Respecting ficticious characters is , to say the least, weird.

[Theland]

Jack - the point is, the influence of Jesus on the calendar, not the influence of some other Tom Dick or Harry. His influence on the world, for unbelievers as well as believers, is a fact.

[Aquagility]

I don't disagree at all, whiffey. But don't religious people get just as violently upset about the stupidity of non-religious people?
Or maybe even more so?

[Theland]

Doc Spock - I suspect a tongue in cheek wind up. Am I right?

[whiffey]

jackthehat, Ian Wilson is by no means a God-boggler, I don't think he is even a religious person, and it was the lack of preachy stuff that so attracted me to the book.

Why should Luke, Acts, not be historically accurate ? They claim to be, even to the point of 'things I saw with my own eyes'
If I read words like these, I always approach them on the presumption that the writer is telling the truth unless otherwise proven, and as I have already said, I cannot see any point in making it all up anyway. Can you ?

[Theland]

Aqua - You would call me religious, so I feel O.K. answering that point. No, I do not get violently upset at those who do not share my faith, but for their sakes, I wish they could.
But violently upset? No.

[Doc Spock]

My problem with god botherers is that they will pester you with their odd beliefs.

No one has ever knocked on my door wanting to discuss the morals of Attila The Hun. Odd that.

[Theland]

Whiffey makes a good point - if somebody made it up, what was in it for them?
By all accounts, their, "reward," was a life of hardship, persecution, and quite often a horrible violent death. Not much of a job description to attract many job applicants is it?

[paulos66]

Mani, I just did and she didn't

[Doc Spock]

"For their sakes"

Just how sanctimonious is that.

I have only one faith, myself and my family.

I take responsibility for my actions, I am in no need of a ficticious fall guy to take the blame.

[Theland]

Doc Spock - I know of one or two estates where they would do precisely that!

[Doc Spock]

I cannot understand why anyone would feel the need to have a "god".

Ken Bigley's family probably feel the same.

Not much evidence of "good works" from what I have seen.

Come on trot out the present day "miracles".

[Theland]

Doc Spock - Sorry to come across as sanctimonious, didn't mean to.
It's just that if you think you are on to something good, you probably would want to share it with others. My Christianity is the same.

[Doc Spock]

Do not listen to Mani Hussein, he is quite mad.

My uncle is a heart surgeon. He has never seen a heart with an insciption on it.

I get lambs hearts from the butchers, none there either.

[jake-the-peg]

Theland which documents do you have in mind?

There are the gospels, and there is Josephus ( one of the 2 mentions in this has almost certainly been "crayoned in" by the early Church)
And I think the Earliest copy we have of that is only about 1200 years old.

Which other documents were you thinking of?

[Octavius]

I certainly get the impression that people will bemoan the contents of the NT as being a made up collection of fireside stories manipulated into evidence of Jesus by the early Church and henceforth proceed to deny any proof of the existence of Jesus.

Yet, when other documents turn up not referring to Jesus, or not referring to a holy man or political activist of peasant Jewish background around at that time come to light, they read them as �actual� evidence of the myth and �. Gospel truth! People will believe the evidence any way they see fit. If they don�t believe in religious figures, fairies, conspiracy theories, ghosts, spectres, the Bermuda Triangle, and poltergeists, then any evidence to support these they will scorn with rebuke and ridicule. If they read something which denies the existence, then they will interpret this as truth. It is subjective and people fortunately have the freedom of choice to believe it or not. It is the difference between truth and faith.

Even if an ancient Coptic jar was found in a cave containing a document written by someone in, say 30AD specifically stating the actions and word of a man called Jesus, many people would immediately rebuff it or assume it was a fake.

[Theland]

Doc Spock - Present day miracles?
The greatest miracle is the existence of Israel after the Jewish people being exiled for two thousand years, and forming the State of Israel in 1948, keeping their seperate identity as a unique persecuted people. Surrounded by enemies, and fighting them off time and time again. Truly miraculous.