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Sack The Padres?
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In the event of a totally secular government. should the military Padres be sacked as irrelevant?
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Naomi - I think the problem is that you repsond to almost every question with a petulant attack on Christians or personal attacks on anyone who questions you. You make massive generalisations, and sweeping statements about people all the time, and it just discredits anything else you have to say, and I do think you have some interesting things to say.
Also, what is your problem with anyone who is from a different race or culture, it's almost like your desperate to incite other people to turn against them, or on some sort of mission to prove they are terrible evil people?
Also, what is your problem with anyone who is from a different race or culture, it's almost like your desperate to incite other people to turn against them, or on some sort of mission to prove they are terrible evil people?
Ghetto Poet , firstly your intolerant and juvenile attitudes are becoming very wearing,
secondly, just because a couple of you 'dummy-spitters' find naomi difficult to deal with doesn't mean that any of us sensible ones would want to see her chased off the board.
Is it not passed your bed-time, now ? it's a school-day in the morning.
secondly, just because a couple of you 'dummy-spitters' find naomi difficult to deal with doesn't mean that any of us sensible ones would want to see her chased off the board.
Is it not passed your bed-time, now ? it's a school-day in the morning.
I think JJ is closer to the mark, I think Quimlad has had several run ins with Naomi over race (although I'm not convinced she is a racist).
It is an open forum sometimes one is in the majority sometimes one is not, it's not bullying when people disagree with you. I remember when I referred to the climate lobby as a new religion I had people coming at me from all angles, it's no biggy it's only AB I just said my piece and left it at that.
So honestly, Nomes, get off your high horse and drink your milk.
It is an open forum sometimes one is in the majority sometimes one is not, it's not bullying when people disagree with you. I remember when I referred to the climate lobby as a new religion I had people coming at me from all angles, it's no biggy it's only AB I just said my piece and left it at that.
So honestly, Nomes, get off your high horse and drink your milk.
Do any of you have any evidence to support any of these accusations? If you have, let's see it - if you haven't then, let this be an end to it. My practically boundless ability to suffer fools gladly is now rapidly diminishing.
Ghetto Poet started this, once again, for no reason and from absolutely nothing. He has done it several times before, and, at my request on a previous occasion, offered his evidence, which turned out to be something that someone else had said, so totally inaccurate. Now there's rationality for you! And you lot are happy to follow his lead? Are you absolutely sure about that?
JJ accuses me not only of racism, but of personal attacks on people, of having a problem with people from a different race or culture, and of inciting others to turn against them. Serious charges indeed. However, he presents no evidence whatsoever - and he presented no evidence the last time he did this either.
Mani, with whom my association goes back a long way, is an intelligent man, who, in my opinion, has belittled himself by jumping on this bandwagon. If he's honest he will admit that he knows differently.
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Ghetto Poet started this, once again, for no reason and from absolutely nothing. He has done it several times before, and, at my request on a previous occasion, offered his evidence, which turned out to be something that someone else had said, so totally inaccurate. Now there's rationality for you! And you lot are happy to follow his lead? Are you absolutely sure about that?
JJ accuses me not only of racism, but of personal attacks on people, of having a problem with people from a different race or culture, and of inciting others to turn against them. Serious charges indeed. However, he presents no evidence whatsoever - and he presented no evidence the last time he did this either.
Mani, with whom my association goes back a long way, is an intelligent man, who, in my opinion, has belittled himself by jumping on this bandwagon. If he's honest he will admit that he knows differently.
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Everton, whether you are convinced I'm a racist or not, that sort of comment does nothing except inflame an already crazy situation. I may have discussed race with many people, but never from a racist point of view, which is what you're implying. Additionally, I have no objection to people disagreeing with me, and I welcome sensible debate, but I make no apology for defending myself against such appallingly insulting accusations.
As Monkeyeyes says, you people clearly find me difficult to deal with. Sadly for you, that isn't my problem. However, if you want a couple of tips, then don't accuse people of things you can't qualify, and don't enter into arguments that are beyond your capabilities when your only recourse is to resort to the most offensive personal abuse - which this is.
Thank you, Monkeyeyes, for a voice of common sense.
Everton, whether you are convinced I'm a racist or not, that sort of comment does nothing except inflame an already crazy situation. I may have discussed race with many people, but never from a racist point of view, which is what you're implying. Additionally, I have no objection to people disagreeing with me, and I welcome sensible debate, but I make no apology for defending myself against such appallingly insulting accusations.
As Monkeyeyes says, you people clearly find me difficult to deal with. Sadly for you, that isn't my problem. However, if you want a couple of tips, then don't accuse people of things you can't qualify, and don't enter into arguments that are beyond your capabilities when your only recourse is to resort to the most offensive personal abuse - which this is.
Thank you, Monkeyeyes, for a voice of common sense.
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Ghetto � I said I will be quiet but you forced me to speak. I will not agree you at all about trying to throw Naomi off the site. She is a knowledgeable woman. She does contribute thoughtfully, even I would say that I am sure she is not racist, and you do need people who would not agree with you otherwise life will become so predictable.
Yawnarama, I've seen you arguing with Quimlad and it was he who accused you of it and although I could see his point ("I have black friends") I've seen enough of your musings to doubt his accuracy a lot of the problems being referred to is you are often very ambiguous in what you state, I don't know you, I've never met you so what you say and what you do is beyond me. Arguing with you however is not by any means above me far from it, and as much as you like to be condescending I can shrug it off without a murmur.
Anyway you're boring me into submission so until your you're next anti-Christian polemic, toodles.....
Anyway you're boring me into submission so until your you're next anti-Christian polemic, toodles.....
Almost the last post Naomi, but not quite�!
�Do any of you have any evidence to support any of these accusations? If you have, let's see it - if you haven't then, let this be an end to it.�
I do not have any evidence of you being racist since I have never known you to be. Condescension and scorn are abundant of course, but that goes for many of us, although you do seem to pour aplenty on people who have any beliefs that are disparate with your own, rather than on individual attitude�s on AB, particularly people who observe the Bible � Christians, and the Qu�uran � Muslims.
Of course GP started this, and this is to be expected if GP turns up in a thread, but no doubt you would have entered into some tiresome argey-bargey with keyplus anyway. I think you could certainly be assured that nobody here shares GPs sentiments in regards to any personal vendetta�s.
One thing I would ask though - since you are so intolerant of the biblical God and His followers - you are not an atheist, so what is so different about �your� God?
�Do any of you have any evidence to support any of these accusations? If you have, let's see it - if you haven't then, let this be an end to it.�
I do not have any evidence of you being racist since I have never known you to be. Condescension and scorn are abundant of course, but that goes for many of us, although you do seem to pour aplenty on people who have any beliefs that are disparate with your own, rather than on individual attitude�s on AB, particularly people who observe the Bible � Christians, and the Qu�uran � Muslims.
Of course GP started this, and this is to be expected if GP turns up in a thread, but no doubt you would have entered into some tiresome argey-bargey with keyplus anyway. I think you could certainly be assured that nobody here shares GPs sentiments in regards to any personal vendetta�s.
One thing I would ask though - since you are so intolerant of the biblical God and His followers - you are not an atheist, so what is so different about �your� God?
Octavius, Thank you for that. I'm pleased to hear that few share GP and his cronies' potty opinions. As for argey-bargey, if you check this thread, you'll see that I've ignored Keyplus's aspersions, so no argey-bargey there from me. I do challenge Keyplus when he accuses me of saying something I haven't said - and, as others would, including you, I reserve my right to challenge him - or anyone else - when that happens. If that's seen by others as argey-bargey, then so be it. Perhaps people should read the threads a little more carefully and separate the wheat from the chaff.
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As for my apparent intolerance of those who observe the bible or the Koran, to those who immediately take personal offence at anything that contradicts or challenges their beliefs, I would say that no offence is intended. I like good manners, and would never offend anyone intentionally, but if people enter into discussions with those who disagree with their views, then they have to expect to encounter disagreement, and how they view that disagreement is their choice. In truth, I am not intolerant of their beliefs (and despite all the custard pies Theland and I have lobbed at each other on AB, he can most certainly vouch for that if he ever returns to this thread - and I've no doubt that you and many others would be very surprised indeed at what he has to say). Quite simply, I'm interested in the subject of religion generally, I like debate, I don't understand how believers can simply ignore the bits of their religious literature that doesn't suit their purpose, I don't understand why they don't look at those texts with honest eyes, but prefer instead to disregard this God's many faults, and I don't like to think of people living their lives in dread of suffering his eventual terrible wrath simply for the crime of being human - and so I suppose it comes across as intolerance. From my point of view, though, it is never personal - it is simply debate - which is something I have attempted to convey many times, usually without success. I truly believe 'each to his own' - and believe it or, not, although I only go to church for weddings, baptisms and funerals - and perhaps the occasional carol service - I am very prominent in my community and actually do a lot of voluntary work and fundraising for our little church. Odd, eh?
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What is different about my God? My God is not vengeful, he (or rather 'it') is not jealous, it's not cruel, it's not spiteful, it doesn't demand adoration or worship, it doesn't require ornate buildings, books, priests, prayers, imams or ritual, and it doesn't threaten dire punishment for perceived sins. Simply, it is not the God of the Bible (got to stop saying that - let's say it is not Yahweh). It is the spirit of the universe, it is peace, and it is love. That is the difference.
Now you can have the last word, if you like - unless, of course, your last word requires an answer.
What is different about my God? My God is not vengeful, he (or rather 'it') is not jealous, it's not cruel, it's not spiteful, it doesn't demand adoration or worship, it doesn't require ornate buildings, books, priests, prayers, imams or ritual, and it doesn't threaten dire punishment for perceived sins. Simply, it is not the God of the Bible (got to stop saying that - let's say it is not Yahweh). It is the spirit of the universe, it is peace, and it is love. That is the difference.
Now you can have the last word, if you like - unless, of course, your last word requires an answer.
No I think I will try contributing something. As the subject of the question has changed any way so why not?
Naomi � I would like to point out few things you said.
I don't understand how believers can simply ignore the bits of their religious literature that doesn't suit their purpose, I don't understand why they don't look at those texts with honest eyes,
I agree people do that, but then any true religion does not depend on people. Instead if the teachings of the religion are right then people�s life should depend on it, example, Islam says don�t drink, don�t deal in interest. Now I don�t think you have to be Muslim only to see the affects of these two things. Of course there are so many other things but lets stick to these. I do not want to talk about any other religion but in Islam you are not just Muslim by having a Muslim name. It is a package deal and you have to accept everything.
What is different about my God? My God is not vengeful, he (or rather 'it') is not jealous, it's not cruel, it's not spiteful, it doesn't demand adoration or worship, it doesn't require ornate buildings, books, priests, prayers, imams or ritual, and it doesn't threaten dire punishment for perceived sins.
God is not vengeful, He has given you free will that you can even refuse to accept him or even use foul language and no lightning would come a roast you, In fact he is not a bit what you are saying. And I agree with you that if God is like that then I myself would not believe in him.
But then do you ever consider honestly yourself about all these things? If you child wants to jump off the cliff would you let him do or would you try stopping him? Would you not try telling him what is right and what is wrong. I am sure any good parent would.
cont:
Naomi � I would like to point out few things you said.
I don't understand how believers can simply ignore the bits of their religious literature that doesn't suit their purpose, I don't understand why they don't look at those texts with honest eyes,
I agree people do that, but then any true religion does not depend on people. Instead if the teachings of the religion are right then people�s life should depend on it, example, Islam says don�t drink, don�t deal in interest. Now I don�t think you have to be Muslim only to see the affects of these two things. Of course there are so many other things but lets stick to these. I do not want to talk about any other religion but in Islam you are not just Muslim by having a Muslim name. It is a package deal and you have to accept everything.
What is different about my God? My God is not vengeful, he (or rather 'it') is not jealous, it's not cruel, it's not spiteful, it doesn't demand adoration or worship, it doesn't require ornate buildings, books, priests, prayers, imams or ritual, and it doesn't threaten dire punishment for perceived sins.
God is not vengeful, He has given you free will that you can even refuse to accept him or even use foul language and no lightning would come a roast you, In fact he is not a bit what you are saying. And I agree with you that if God is like that then I myself would not believe in him.
But then do you ever consider honestly yourself about all these things? If you child wants to jump off the cliff would you let him do or would you try stopping him? Would you not try telling him what is right and what is wrong. I am sure any good parent would.
cont:
What if he still does not listen and instead try pushing your other son who does not want to jump. What would be your action then, a bit severe than the first or softer? What if all the judge in the world start letting all the criminals off? Would this society be safer or dangerous? So God has given rules and threatens to punish only for the safety of our fellow human beings. Otherwise by killing someone, or by not accepting God or his words there would be no ill affect on God so nothing to do with him.
As far as Imams, priests and other people are concerned then if you take them as sincere teachers and in fact if they are sincere then they are OK if they are not then they would be punished more as they not only were using religion for their own benefit plus they mislead others who were trusting them. You can not completely avoid them either as I do not understand Arabic so either I should learn it or I will have to depend upon someone to understand what Quran says.
As far as right or wrong is concerned then Any religion that is true and practical that does not need preaching, that shows itself, My father in law just had operation for prostate problem day before yesterday. He just asked me if it was right that this problem was not common among Muslims due to circumcision as his doctor (not Muslim) mentioned. I told him that chances are very little and I have not heard of as many cases in Pakistan as I hear over here. No I did not ask him to accept Islam but sometimes only one thing can make people think. Of course on the other hand there might be few Muslims who would say that circumcision is not necessary in modern times. So truth and practicality speaks for itself. Christians (with due respect) followed changed teachings of Jesus (pbuh) so that is the reason people like you do not believe in biblical God. I don�t blame you.
As far as Imams, priests and other people are concerned then if you take them as sincere teachers and in fact if they are sincere then they are OK if they are not then they would be punished more as they not only were using religion for their own benefit plus they mislead others who were trusting them. You can not completely avoid them either as I do not understand Arabic so either I should learn it or I will have to depend upon someone to understand what Quran says.
As far as right or wrong is concerned then Any religion that is true and practical that does not need preaching, that shows itself, My father in law just had operation for prostate problem day before yesterday. He just asked me if it was right that this problem was not common among Muslims due to circumcision as his doctor (not Muslim) mentioned. I told him that chances are very little and I have not heard of as many cases in Pakistan as I hear over here. No I did not ask him to accept Islam but sometimes only one thing can make people think. Of course on the other hand there might be few Muslims who would say that circumcision is not necessary in modern times. So truth and practicality speaks for itself. Christians (with due respect) followed changed teachings of Jesus (pbuh) so that is the reason people like you do not believe in biblical God. I don�t blame you.
There you go !
Here is my earlier post on that very issue, Octavius.
monkeyeyes
Tue 11/11/08
11:51
One of the problems is that the Christian God is usually referred to as 'God' rather than any of his 'older names'. This necessitates the addendum of 'biblical god' to distingish him(her?) from any other gods we may be referring to.
If I say "God";
the Christians think of Jesus's dad;
keyplus thinks of Allah;
the zoroastrians think of Mazda;
the hindus can think of any of his forms........, etc.
For that remainder who have some sort of spiritual belief that doesn't fit any particular written template, and believe that there is some sort of supreme being/force the word 'god', to them, is a description of this.
It is just very different from your God and this is what they are striving to get across.
If we could refer to the God of the bible as Yahweh, Adonis or even Arnold it would help clarify matters, I feel.
I'm not sure naomi, or those holding a similar view, are much inclined to discover the roots of their 'god'. Anyway, it is very difficult to prove the existance of any god/supreme being to the satisfaction of everybody.
What those of us who would identify as being 'non-believers' in the Christian sense would say is that our inclination to believe that there may well be 'something, somewhere' is a private matter and should not form any part of legislative or public life, nor be used as a carrot nor a stick !
Here is my earlier post on that very issue, Octavius.
monkeyeyes
Tue 11/11/08
11:51
One of the problems is that the Christian God is usually referred to as 'God' rather than any of his 'older names'. This necessitates the addendum of 'biblical god' to distingish him(her?) from any other gods we may be referring to.
If I say "God";
the Christians think of Jesus's dad;
keyplus thinks of Allah;
the zoroastrians think of Mazda;
the hindus can think of any of his forms........, etc.
For that remainder who have some sort of spiritual belief that doesn't fit any particular written template, and believe that there is some sort of supreme being/force the word 'god', to them, is a description of this.
It is just very different from your God and this is what they are striving to get across.
If we could refer to the God of the bible as Yahweh, Adonis or even Arnold it would help clarify matters, I feel.
I'm not sure naomi, or those holding a similar view, are much inclined to discover the roots of their 'god'. Anyway, it is very difficult to prove the existance of any god/supreme being to the satisfaction of everybody.
What those of us who would identify as being 'non-believers' in the Christian sense would say is that our inclination to believe that there may well be 'something, somewhere' is a private matter and should not form any part of legislative or public life, nor be used as a carrot nor a stick !
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