I am disgusted

[soaps]

Pope John Paul II.This man presided over a clerical abuse coverup and contributed to an AIDS epidemic. And now they want to make him a saint?

[Sqad]

ummmm.....Have I got it wrong;-)

[mike11111]

I think it was the present Pope who said that condoms did not prevent the spread of AIDS.

[murraymints]

much as it pains me.....Sqad ........u r right !!!

[Sqad]

ric...I agree...we do.....but we fail badly.

[ummmm]

So did I Mike...

[naomi24]

The church's attitude to sex is just yet another ploy to bring shame, guilt and remorse upon the faithful - and it's a lot of nonsense.

[Sqad]

mike/ummmm....perhaps they both did ;-)

[ummmm]

It's never worked with me Naomi. I've never felt guilty when having sexy cuddles outside of marriage :-)

[Ric.ror]

Sqad - we all fail in so many ways but its early today so lets really try hard not to. Lets start by not saying (or typing) anything that may hurt anyone else

[Huderon]

Sqad, I have never denied that the abuse the priests did should never have happened, nor should the cover up. All I asked was in what way the church's teachings contributed to the spread of AIDS.

The usual responses seem to be that they make people deny their sexuality or are inhuman in some way or that people (usually men) use them as an excuse not to use condoms when putting themselves around. As far as I can tell, following the church's teachings will limit the spread of AIDS not make things worse.

[ummmm]

The fact that the Pope said they didn't prevent the spread of aids...and the fact that the church knows full well that people have sex outside marriage, and people have extra marital relationships. So saying something like that was/is very irresponsible.

[Sqad]

Huderon....i can see where you are coming from, but my point is, that if the "weakness of the flesh" is present to a degree within the Church itself, what chance have we..mere mortals.

Now IF the above IS the case and I only speak from the experiences of life, then denying the populace the use of the condom, which the Catholic Church has done, will aid in the spread of AIDS.

[Davethedog]

Squad - yep I know that, the point I didn't make is that drug users, open wounds etc can give people in monogomous relationships aids admitted in a minority but it can and does happen.

The point being that it isn't the disease they worry about it the none conception.

Still doesn't look good on paper, well have to meet for a pint. :-)

[Sqad]

Dave....LOL....don´t drink beer, but a whiskey and a few laughs would do me fine.

[bednobs]

personally i am disgusted that people get taken in by cults such as these

[Huderon]

Naiomi, nobody (these days !) forces anyone to follow any particular faith. And don't go the children route ... they grow up and make their own choices in their own time as mine have done and as I did in my time.

Which means there is nothing to stop anyone who does not agree with the church's teachings from leaving and finding a faith (there are plenty out there) which is better suited to them .. or from dropping faith altogether.

Basically if you don't like the rules of the club, you have two choices, leave or work to get the rules changed. So far the rules have been moderated slightly by the current Pope's thoughts on the matter of condoms, but his thoughts are not official teaching as far as I know, though they will be treated as such.

But to keep banging on about how the church's teaching contribute to the spread of AIDS is daft when, if followed, they patently do not do so.

[Sqad]

Huderon.

<<<<But to keep banging on about how the church's teaching contribute to the spread of AIDS is daft when, if followed, they patently do not do so.<<<

Yes, I tend to agree.

Fewer and fewer people now, adhere to the teachings of the Church.....in my opinion.

[Huderon]

Sqad, yes I know people will break the rules .. but if you are going to break one (sex outside of marriage) you may as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb and break the contraception one.

Using the church's rules as an excuse not to use condoms when you are already breaking a major rule is just making an excuse for something you don't want to do in the first place. And you can hardly blame the church for that !

[ummmm]

So telling people in aids riddled parts of Africa that the use of condoms does not prevent aids would be adding to the spread of it. It's all well saying if they follow the religion it wouldn't happen anyway...but every husband and every wife cannot control how much to the letter their spouse follows their religion.

So a good Catholic wife catches aids from her wandering husband because the Pope said she can't use condoms....

[McMouse]

<<now makes me Question the "real Saints" >>
What makes you think that any saints were worthy of canonisation? The whole business of saints, relics and miracles has been used for centuries to attract pilgrims and their dosh to otherwise unremarkable places. It's a scam.