I am disgusted

[soaps]

Pope John Paul II.This man presided over a clerical abuse coverup and contributed to an AIDS epidemic. And now they want to make him a saint?

[Sqad]

Huderon.....LOL....I must say that I do agree.

ummmm....I don´t think that the use of condoms in AID riddled Africa is uppermost in their minds as the women get dragged into the mud huts for a night of passion ;-)

[beso]

The church and its followers bang on endlessly about their opinions.

Atheists should feel free to present their interpretations of the views of religious people.

Those who deny the church is contributing to the spread of AIDS with their prohibition on condoms have their eyes shut and should stop banging on about atheists banging on.

[piggynose]

just to add a different opinion or angle. Why doesnt durex for example promote condom sales in africa with buy one get one free or with competitions. it seems to me to be an untappted market, with billions of revenue going.
before someone says well its a poor country so no body can really afford to buy them, well surely durex has to make them affordable.
this is just an idea, maybe its naive of me,

pn

[ummmm]

People working for aids charities have tried giving them out for free.

[Sqad]

beso

<<<Those who deny the church is contributing to the spread of AIDS with their prohibition on condoms have their eyes shut and should stop banging on about atheists banging on.<<<

My point and Huderon´s point ( I think) is yes, the Church is "banging on" but nobody is listening, hence the Church is not accelerating the spread of AIDS.

[Marijn]

St Thomas Moor was responsible for many people being burnt and tortured. I've only just learnt this thanks to a video clip someone posted on here of Stephen Fry. So goodness knows what the other saints have done.

[Davethedog]

Durex are a PLC its not thier place to subsidise anything, however the W.H.O do apparently.

I have no idea as to the sexual mores of African but as thier are 52 countries I would imagine they are as diverse and cosmopolitain as, say, Europe.

Before you say the word of the Pope's edict didn't encourage the spread and rise of A.I.D.S in Africa, I advise a little research.

Applying your own moral ideas to a continent, where,geographicaly, historicaly and culturaly the moral compass may be different to ours, doesn't mean your take on it is right.

[naomi24]

Huderon, this smacks of I'm alright Jack. Fine for you - you're educated and you are able to make considered choices - but you're failing to acknowledge the church's negative influence on the superstitious and the uneducated. Africa aside, take at look at other poverty stricken areas, the slum areas in Roman Catholic countries for example. and ask yourself why desperately poor people continue to produce children they can't afford to feed. It's because those people are following 'the rules'.

[beso]

Even if nobody is listening the Pope is still "promoting" the spread of AIDS.

Moreover I think anyone who thinks Papal Doctrine has no influence on the behaviour of at least some people is very naive.

[sandyRoe]

Are we not more than the sum of our appetites? Celibacy outside marriage and fidelity when wed would make for a happier and healthier world.

[ummmm]

Celibacy outside marriage and fidelity when wed would make for a happier and healthier world.

In an ideal world....but this is not an ideal world.

[Sqad]

beso

<<<<Moreover I think anyone who thinks Papal Doctrine has no influence on the behaviour of at least some people is very naive.<<<

Unfortunately these "some people" are the converted,i.e those that would not even dream of a "bit of spare" and hence would play no part in the life cycle of the AIDS virus.

It is the "others" that couldn´t care less about the Pontiff´s pontifications.

[sandyRoe]

Agree with sqad. You somehow can't imagine Anne Widdecombe ever needing the services of a STD clinic.

[ummmm]

Sqad - you could have a husband that doesn't care but a wife that does.

[Sqad]

sandy....
<Celibacy outside marriage and fidelity when wed would make for a happier and healthier world.<<

Absolutely..............but boring............so count me out.

[sandyRoe]

When I said celibacy outside marriage I was thinking of the motto: Do as I say, not as I do.

[Sqad]

sandy...LOL

[Davethedog]

In support of the point made by Naomi.

In the 70's I went to Milan, there is road that is really wide and at the top is huge park with possibly a palace in it, on Sunday the Milanese dressed up in thier best and "promanaded" in it.

In the street was every shop that I couldn't afford to go into Gucci, Yves St Laurent, Rolex etc and off of this road were narrow streets almost lanes and you could see tenaments, no other way to descibe it, and running in the street were children with no shoes. I have never forgotten it, a modern country, in 20th century europe such poverty should exist, was down to the church and its no contaception rule.

I have never forgotten, I have no idea if its all been knocked down but I hope so

[NOX]

Huderon- in Africa for example you have a married couple- the fella doesn't have a liking for condoms and isn't even maybe particularly religious- he puts it around a fair bit and then comes home to his wife who is religious and demands unprotected sex with her too and backs it up with the basis that the church condems the use of condoms - he's infected- his girlfriends are infected, his wife is infected, they have a baby/ babies then born with HIV- see how this works? Women do not always have the choices that they should have, it's naieve to think that they do.
I know someone who does once yearly charity work in an Aids orphanage, and he'll hapily tell you that the Catholic church there is one of the major obstacles in tackling HIV/ AIDS.

[Sqad]

Dave....exactly.....we came off the Q.E 2 and went ashore in Acapulco and saw the scenes expertly described by your goodself.