Let's All Laugh At Man Utd!

[davetuc]

I've got to say, I am just loving what's going on at Manure! Moyes is doing a great job and their aging, average squad is being found out. (£27.5m for Feillaini, anyone?) Over the years, I've grown to detest everything about that lot, from Old Red Nose, through Whiteside, McClair, Robson, Keane, the Nevilles, Scholes, Horseface, Ferdinand, Rooney and all the dodgy decisions that went their way. Although they are still getting 'celebrity' bias with referees ie Rooney's kick last week, the fear factor has disappeared and teams are going there and having a go. I'd just love it if they finish outside the top four and go into the Thursday Night Challenge, or even better, finish 6th or 7th with no Europe at all. Well, fingers crossed and here's hoping!

[Gromit]

There has been a change to the Champions League entry criteria which would allow 5 English teams from 2015. To boost the standing of the Europa Cup, which is percieved as second rate, the winners of that will now earn a Champions League place. So if an English clubs wins the Europa but is not in the top 4 of the Premier League, we could get 5 teams qualify.

I would want any of the home nations to win if they were not playing England. In European club competitions, I would want the English teams to win against foreign opposition. If the Champions League final is Arsenal v Real Madid, I would want Arsenal to win it.

[davetuc]

Angie - There may be UEFA rules, but do you honestly believe they are set up with the intentions of anything else apart from money-making? In my opinion, UEFA are as bent and corrupt as FIFA and the IOC and all that matters to them is money, money, money. Again, I ask you would they risk losing say Manure, if they finished 4th, to be replaced by the champions of Lichtenstein. No way. UEFA rules can be set up however they like. Therefore I say again, there is no way I could cheer on Manure or Chelski in Europe because I simply don't like them. Man City, I say good luck, because they play good football, the team isn't full of arrogant, hateful characters (ie Terry, Cole, Rooney, Ferdinand etc) and they have unlimited wealth so the prize money is a drop in the ocean to them.

[Sipowicz]

Dave, get real, you owe Angie an apology. Read the rules!

[Gromit]

davetuc

UEFA CL rankings are based on an Associations performance in the competion over 5 years. The fact that English teams do well in the competition means that they get 4 places allocation. If Chelsea ore Manchester United do badly in the competition we could lose a place and only have 3 qualification places. As Arsenal nearly always finish outside the top 3, that would mean you would be dumped into the Europa Cup. It is the teams you want to lose that have got you into the Champions League for the lat decade.

[Gromit]

Here are UEFA's ranking rules.

ANNEX II - COEFFICIENT RANKING SYSTEM
1. At the end of each season, UEFA compiles a performance table (UEFA association coefficient rankings) covering the five most recent UEFA Champions League and UEFA Cup/UEFA Europa League seasons in order to determine the number of places allocated to an association in the UEFA Champions League and UEFA Europa League (former UEFA Cup).
2. Calculation of the association’s coefficient in the UEFA Champions League and UEFA Europa League
a) 2 points (1 point for qualifying-phase and play-off matches) awarded for a win
b) 1point(0.5pointforqualifying-phaseandplay-offmatches)awardedfora draw
c) 0 points awarded for a defeat
Qualifying-phase and play-offs results are taken into account only for the calculation of the association’s coefficient.
3. Calculation of the club’s coefficient in the UEFA Champions League
a) Qualifyingphaseandplay-offs
− 0.5 points awarded to each club eliminated in the first qualifying round
− 1 point awarded to each club eliminated in the second qualifying round
− 0 points awarded to each club eliminated in the third qualifying round and in the play-offs. The clubs eliminated at these stages move into
the UEF A Europa League and join the UEF A Europa League coefficient calculation system.
b) Groupstageonwards
− 2 points awarded for a win
− 1 point awarded for a draw
− 0 points awarded for a defeat

[angie55]

Thanks Sipowicz and Gromit.

[Gromit]

If Chelsea and Manchester United and the other CL qualifiers had not done well in the competition maintaining our 4 qualifiers, then Arsenal would not have been in the Champions League Competition in 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011 and this year.
That is why, as a loyal Arsenal fan, you should be glad when English teams win.

[davetuc]

Well done Gromit for some fine research, but it means NOTHING! UEFA will bend and flex it to suit themselves. Coefficients, rankings, points for this and that. It will all be arranged to suit UEFA and fill their coffers. As I said, UEFA, FIFA, IOC - enough evidence there already to know what goes on.

[Gromit]

They will bend the rules to get the most successful teams into the competition. It usually follows that the best teams generate the most money.
At the moment, 4th place in the English Premier League is deemed successful and a benchmark. It is how Arsenal usually scrape through. If the other English teams do badly, your route to qualifying may be curtailed.

But you seem with ignorant of the facts, or just blinded by your hatred of better teams than yours.

[Sipowicz]

You can lead a horse to water..................!

[davetuc]

Oh Gromit, you sound as bitter as your icon looks. I am not ignorant of the facts as I believe they will be arranged to suit accordingly. I am not blinded by hatred of teams better than mine as I have already said I like the way Man City play and they are the best team in the league. Also, I had nothing against Liverpool/Everton/Forest in the 80's as they weren't hateable as Manure are now.
Also, if we were to miss out on qualifying for the Champions League, so be it. It is an overblown, money-making monster and was far better when only the champions qualified and it was straight knockout.

[Saki]

davetuc, if you refuse to apologise, then you are "ignorant of the facts".
Swallow your pride, man up and APOLOGISE!

[davetuc]

Saki - Apologise for what, exactly? Nothing to do with facts. I am aware of the so-called rules, I just think UEFA will twist them to suit themselves.

[bhg481]

I thought I saw the word "laugh" in the title of this thread. There's not much laughing goping on here at the moment. Too much Christmas spirit?

[davetuc]

Unfortunately, bhg, some people are unable to laugh at themselves and so it has turned into a slanging match. Maybe best to leave it alone now.

[Gromit]

You keep saying UEFA will twist the rules. Not sure what you are on about.

The only instance I can think of is allowing Liverpool to play in the qualifying round of the 2005-06 competition because they were the holders but had not finished in the top four of the EPL. Most people agreed it was an anomoly that the winners and holders would not be in that years competition, so the rules were bent to let the holders to play. Is that what you mean?

[davetuc]

No, what I mean is they will justify 4 places for us, Spain, and Germany at the cost of smaller countries, whatever happens, purely for financial gain. That is why it was changed to a league format in the first place. Anyway, this thread has run it's course, so maybe best to leave it there.

[Sipowicz]

.........but you can't make it drink!

[Gromit]

You do not seem to understand how the competition works. Associations that are successful in it get the most places. England, Spain and Germany get the most places because they consistantly make the semis and final. If there are two Scottish teams in the Champions League final over the next few years, the Scottish Football Association would get more places.

It is not fixed to make more money, it is designed to reward success. It is not perfect. The richest clubs will always do better than clubs with no money. The only way to make it fair would be to limit the cost of squads across all Europe but that isn't going to happen. If Arsenal could spend no more on their squad than Sligo Rovers that would make the competition fair. But I expect it wouldn't be as good a tournament.

[davetuc]

How many times do I have to say it? I KNOW WHAT THE RULES SAY!!!!
I just don't believe they will adhere to them if the situation arose where one of the bigger leagues started to struggle for some reason. It is a competition designed to keep the big clubs in it for UEFAs financial gain through broadcasting, merchandising and media rights. God, this is hard work!