News6 mins ago
The Integration Of Muslims....
...will probably be the hardest task" the UK has ever faced.
So says Trevor Phillips, former chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission.
According to a recent survey:
52% of those quizzed disagreed that homosexuality should be legal in Britain, and 47% said it was unacceptable for a gay or lesbian person to teach in school.
Only 34% would tell the police if they thought someone they knew was getting involved with supporters of terrorism in Syria and 4% said they sympathise with people who take part in suicide bombing to fight injustice.
39% were also found to be of the view that "wives should always obey their husbands".
23% said they would support there being areas of Britain in which Sharia law was introduced.
Mr Phillips said "The integration of Britain's Muslims will probably be the hardest task we've ever faced. It will require the abandonment of the milk-and-water multiculturalism still so beloved of many, and the adoption of a far more muscular approach to integration."
How do we begin to abandon "the milk-and-water multiculturalism still so beloved of many" and adopt a “far more muscular approach to integration”?
http://
So says Trevor Phillips, former chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission.
According to a recent survey:
52% of those quizzed disagreed that homosexuality should be legal in Britain, and 47% said it was unacceptable for a gay or lesbian person to teach in school.
Only 34% would tell the police if they thought someone they knew was getting involved with supporters of terrorism in Syria and 4% said they sympathise with people who take part in suicide bombing to fight injustice.
39% were also found to be of the view that "wives should always obey their husbands".
23% said they would support there being areas of Britain in which Sharia law was introduced.
Mr Phillips said "The integration of Britain's Muslims will probably be the hardest task we've ever faced. It will require the abandonment of the milk-and-water multiculturalism still so beloved of many, and the adoption of a far more muscular approach to integration."
How do we begin to abandon "the milk-and-water multiculturalism still so beloved of many" and adopt a “far more muscular approach to integration”?
http://
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@nomes
//Astute! //
Why, thank you, ma'am. :D
I should refine my wording, to stress that, at the molecular level, the fat molecules do everything they can to gather together and exclude water molecules from their midst. In terms of structural organisation it appears to violate entropy but it is actually more energetically favourable than fully dissolving the non-polar portions, of the fat molecules, in water.
On the macro scale, the colloquial sense of "mixing" applies, albeit only due to appearances.
// One could almost be forgiven for thinking you are making a rather more accurate assessment of the situation this country is facing. //
For all the potential allegorical comparisons, of the above, I would prefer to just come out and say it: however jolly or friendly they may be, in the workplace, our western habit of socialising in pubs overtly rubs against their ways, restricting opportunities for chummy socialising to contexts and locations where the chumminess would be easily observed by one, or other, community. Whilst we might not bat an eyelid, their book specifically recommends against social interactions with "infidels". So that's the end of that.
Approbrium the other way around might be of the "look at that berk, showing off how politically correct he/she is" variety. We don't codify social division in any of our holy books.*
* an open invitation to be corrected. ;-)
//Astute! //
Why, thank you, ma'am. :D
I should refine my wording, to stress that, at the molecular level, the fat molecules do everything they can to gather together and exclude water molecules from their midst. In terms of structural organisation it appears to violate entropy but it is actually more energetically favourable than fully dissolving the non-polar portions, of the fat molecules, in water.
On the macro scale, the colloquial sense of "mixing" applies, albeit only due to appearances.
// One could almost be forgiven for thinking you are making a rather more accurate assessment of the situation this country is facing. //
For all the potential allegorical comparisons, of the above, I would prefer to just come out and say it: however jolly or friendly they may be, in the workplace, our western habit of socialising in pubs overtly rubs against their ways, restricting opportunities for chummy socialising to contexts and locations where the chumminess would be easily observed by one, or other, community. Whilst we might not bat an eyelid, their book specifically recommends against social interactions with "infidels". So that's the end of that.
Approbrium the other way around might be of the "look at that berk, showing off how politically correct he/she is" variety. We don't codify social division in any of our holy books.*
* an open invitation to be corrected. ;-)
Watched the Ch.4 documentary last night. What can you say that hasn't been said over and over again on these pages?
One question I would like to ask (and never is) especially to types like the young bearded wonders with their Muslim 'whelk' stall in the High street espousing full sharia law for the UK.
"How do you make a living?"
One question I would like to ask (and never is) especially to types like the young bearded wonders with their Muslim 'whelk' stall in the High street espousing full sharia law for the UK.
"How do you make a living?"
and now, a very unintegrated 15 year old girl jihadist
http://
http://
"Trevor Phillips says that getting Muslims to integrate will probably be the hardest task the UK has ever faced, firstly because of the reluctance of a significant number of them to change their attitudes, and secondly because of the blasé approach of a significant number of the rest of the population who refuse to acknowledge that a problem exists. Quite simply the question is how do we get it across to those people that they are mistaken?"
I did say a while ago that I'd try to answer your question, Naomi. I've been thinking about that answer. In one way, of course, it's very easy.: those whom our Trev describes as blasé would stop being so if they knew some basic facts about Islam - its origins and core teachings, ,the character of its Prophet, what the Sharia is, and its historic relationship with the West. You and I know that traditional Islam is as much a political ideology as a religious one, and that this ideology is fascist in nature, that is to say supremacist, aggressive, authoritarian, intolerant of criticism and contemptuous of non-idealogues. This raw Islam is incompatible with liberal Western societies, and the presence of a large Muslim community which adheres to Islam in that form is a threat to those societies. . But you, I and others have advanced these points many times on this site - and have failed as many times in getting the bien pensants to question their delusion that Islam is "just another religion" and that the average imam (beard apart) is much like the vicar of Dibley.
So how do we persuade the blasé to show some curiosity about the religion which ( for all the wrong reasons) is in the news daily? (I find this lack of curiosity a curiosity in itself. When the latest murder - often of his fellow citizens - is perpetrated by a bloke shouting "Allahu Akbar" surely the normal response should be to ask why he's doing it, and especially why he thinks what he's doing is an act of piety, not respond as people on here do, as the media do, as the politicians of all parties do by saying (on no evidence whatsoever) that these acts "are nothing to do with the true Islam", or "a perversion of Islam".) Well, the omens aren't good, are they? Of the many AB bien only Jim has considered the survey results and discussed their possible implications.
Anyway, I'll have another go. I'll start by pointing out that, while never a multi-culturalist, I didn't until fairly recently see Islam itself as a threat. For instance, when the fatwa soliciting the murder of Rushdie was issued by Khomeini in 1989 I too was "blasé". The demonstrations and book burnings which followed I attributed to a few ill-educated fanatics rather than a predictable consequence of Muslim immigration. My view then was that second generation Muslims originally from conservative Muslim countries, but born here and better educated than their parents, would soon reject these traditional attitudes in favour of Western freedom and tolerance. Well, I was wrong about that, wasn't I? Mr. Phillips' documentary only reinforces what we can all see with our own eyes.
What changed my view was not just the unfolding of events; I started to look at Islam itself. So, I say to bien pensants everywhere: "Do a bit of research. Read a biography of the Prophet. Pick up a Koran, read a few random chapters of it and see what it really thinks about non-believers (you won't have to look hard or far). Check out the web site of the Muslim Council of Britain. Check out the web site of your local mosque or Islamic cultural centre. And look up the human rights records of the countries which are providing most of today's 'refugees'"
And finally a couple of links which suggest that the task may be even harder than Trevor thinks:
http://
http://
I did say a while ago that I'd try to answer your question, Naomi. I've been thinking about that answer. In one way, of course, it's very easy.: those whom our Trev describes as blasé would stop being so if they knew some basic facts about Islam - its origins and core teachings, ,the character of its Prophet, what the Sharia is, and its historic relationship with the West. You and I know that traditional Islam is as much a political ideology as a religious one, and that this ideology is fascist in nature, that is to say supremacist, aggressive, authoritarian, intolerant of criticism and contemptuous of non-idealogues. This raw Islam is incompatible with liberal Western societies, and the presence of a large Muslim community which adheres to Islam in that form is a threat to those societies. . But you, I and others have advanced these points many times on this site - and have failed as many times in getting the bien pensants to question their delusion that Islam is "just another religion" and that the average imam (beard apart) is much like the vicar of Dibley.
So how do we persuade the blasé to show some curiosity about the religion which ( for all the wrong reasons) is in the news daily? (I find this lack of curiosity a curiosity in itself. When the latest murder - often of his fellow citizens - is perpetrated by a bloke shouting "Allahu Akbar" surely the normal response should be to ask why he's doing it, and especially why he thinks what he's doing is an act of piety, not respond as people on here do, as the media do, as the politicians of all parties do by saying (on no evidence whatsoever) that these acts "are nothing to do with the true Islam", or "a perversion of Islam".) Well, the omens aren't good, are they? Of the many AB bien only Jim has considered the survey results and discussed their possible implications.
Anyway, I'll have another go. I'll start by pointing out that, while never a multi-culturalist, I didn't until fairly recently see Islam itself as a threat. For instance, when the fatwa soliciting the murder of Rushdie was issued by Khomeini in 1989 I too was "blasé". The demonstrations and book burnings which followed I attributed to a few ill-educated fanatics rather than a predictable consequence of Muslim immigration. My view then was that second generation Muslims originally from conservative Muslim countries, but born here and better educated than their parents, would soon reject these traditional attitudes in favour of Western freedom and tolerance. Well, I was wrong about that, wasn't I? Mr. Phillips' documentary only reinforces what we can all see with our own eyes.
What changed my view was not just the unfolding of events; I started to look at Islam itself. So, I say to bien pensants everywhere: "Do a bit of research. Read a biography of the Prophet. Pick up a Koran, read a few random chapters of it and see what it really thinks about non-believers (you won't have to look hard or far). Check out the web site of the Muslim Council of Britain. Check out the web site of your local mosque or Islamic cultural centre. And look up the human rights records of the countries which are providing most of today's 'refugees'"
And finally a couple of links which suggest that the task may be even harder than Trevor thinks:
http://
http://
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