Unfair Notice Of Intended Prosecution

[Ellipsis]

Asking for a friend, who was driving up the motorway at 1:48 AM in the early hours of Saturday morning, at 70mph. As you might imagine, the motorway was empty and she was in the inside lane.  A Gatso speed camera appeared showing 40 mph across all four lanes, and an electronic picture showing queues ahead.  Seeing far ahead, she saw no queue as yet.  She took off her accelerator and did not slam her brakes, as there were cars behind her, also on the inside lane.  

A flash appeared and she thought "What the ...???" She checked her speedo and it was just over 50mph (because she had taken off the accelerator).  Literally half a mile later, another electronic sign showed end of restriction (the "0" symbol).  She had not seen any cars ahead in that time - there was no queue. 

(As I said, "Seeing far ahead, she saw no queue as yet."  In fact there was nobody ahead at all, because if there had been, my friend would have seen their flash, and braked herself"! As no doubt the drivers behind did, thanks to her misfortune.)

Today she received a "Notice of Intended Prosecution" showing that she was caught doing 52mph in a 40mph zone at 1:48 AM on Saturday.  This seems ridiculous. What should she do?

[naomi24]

I don't doubt for moment that these are revenue-generating exercises - but I doubt very much that arguing the case will do her any good.

[New Judge]

“Yes, and no doubt it caught many victims who, with no other drivers ahead, did not see the flashing to warn that this ridiculous camera was active.”

The cameras are active all the time. They activate according to the limit displayed on the gantry. But drivers do not have to rely on the camera flashing – there is a bleeding great big, brightly lit sign conveying the limit.

“ You would brake from 70 to 40, despite the fact there was somebody behind you that was faster than you?”

As above, there should be absolutely no need for braking whatsoever. The fact that somebody behind is as equally unobservant as your friend regretfully does not mean she can plough on regardless.

I really don’t get this. Dealing with variable speed limits on  motorways is an intrinsic part of the skills required to drive in teh UK and has been for some years. I have driven many thousands of miles on tthem, both by day and night. Those gantry signs are visible from probably a quarter of a mile distant, even on a bright day. Even if the detail is not decipherable at that distance, they suggest to the driver that something is going to change – either speed limit or a lane closure. There is absolutely no need for harsh braking  to shed 30mph from 70. At that speed the vehicles drag is very high – twice as high as it is at 50mph – and the deceleration just by lifting off would be quite significant.

You asked what your friend should do and I've explained it. Whatever views either she or you have on the unfairness of it all will not alter those requirements. If she wants to dispute the matter (though I'm no clear on what grounds she might do so) she must plead not guily in court. In the very likely event she is convicted, she will face a fine of half a week's net income, a surcharge of 40% of that fine and the prosecuion will ask for a contribution towards their costs which will be £650. So if she takes home £500 pw it will cost her £1,000. And three points.

“You may wager all you like, NJ, but that is what she told me it said.”

I believe your friend told you that, naomi. But I also believe she was either misinterpreting what she had received or did not exactly tell you the proper story.

It is true that the police do not listen to excuses. If a driver wants to argue his case he must go to court to do so. But equally the police have no powers to levy fines. They can only offer a driver the opportunity to pay a penalty to keep the matter out of court. If he doesn’t accept that offer, the police will prosecute him. There is simply no point in them saying “'we don't care what excuses you send us - you're fined “ as they have no powers to enforce such a threat.

[naomi24]

NJ, I can't post a link from my phone but on the Metropolitan Police website you will find a heading 'Mitigating Circumstances'  listing a host of excuses that are not acceptable - and it says they are not acceptable 'as reasons for speeding of running a red light'.  This, I imagine, is what she received. 

[ToraToraTora]

16:26, these are legal documents there is no way they'd ever say that. If it says that then show me an example should be locatable.

[New Judge]

You probably mean this, naomi:

https://acdp.met.police.uk/auth/info/faq

"The Fixed Penalty process is a fast track system where the offender does not dispute that an offence has taken place and we will therefore not enter into correspondence that raises issues that would be more appropriately dealt with in court. If you wish to use one of the above reasons for the offence you should allow the matter to proceed to court and when court proceedings have been issued you may supply any mitigation direct to the court for the Magistrate’s consideration."

Which is precisely what I said. The police do not consider mitigation or defences as part of the fixed penalty scheme. You either accept the allegation as it stands and pay the penalty  or you take the matter to court. But that is not quite the same as them saying "...we don't care what excuses you send us - you're fined “. 

So I think between us we've ironed  that out!  😁

[Hopkirk]

TCL says humans set these restrictions. Incorrect, they are automatic on variable speed limit motorways.

I drive for a living and see this farce of bringing full speed traffic down to 40 for no reason very often.

It risks causing accidents, and the slowing and accelerating increases the harmful emissions we are supposed to be trying to avoid.

If you want to see this in action, just drive anti clockwise on the M25 past junction 20. 

I seldom pass this without seeing a 40 mph sign followed by a national speed limit sign.

[dustypuss]

I think they use variable speed limits to space traffic out . It's to stop traffic bunching up and sometimes coming to a complete stop.

[Hopkirk]

That may be the intention DP, but where I am seeing it at J20 it actually causes the bunching. My other gripe is it goes from 70 to 40, with no attempt at gradual slowing.

[Hopkirk]

The same automatic signage sometimes announces fog on a beautiful hot sunny day.

[Auntypoll]

Pay the fine - sorry tell your friend to pay the fine. If a sign on the motorway says slow down then you slow down regardless of if you see no reason to do so!

[dustypuss]

"She had not seen any cars ahead in that time - there was no queue. "

Who to say it was a queue of cars .  It could have been a oil spill or a glass from a previous accident. You can't always see the reason! Even 🐄🐏🐑

[jno]

I  probably only do a millionth of the driving Hopkirk does, but I've seen quite a few reduced speed signs - and I've never ever found anything that caused one, no floods or accidents or 🐉🐉 on the road. But you just have to slow down and/or look out for 📸📸

[THECORBYLOON]

“We set and manage variable speed limits (VSL) to look after your safety and to improve traffic flow on our roads.

 

Complying with VSL

Any speed limits displayed within a red circle must be complied with or you will be breaking the law.

 

There are several reasons why speed limits may be lowered temporarily. This includes traffic congestion (actual or likely), roadworks, our traffic officers working in vulnerable locations, extreme weather conditions and incidents. The reason may not always be clear or evident to customers on our roads, but the displayed mandatory speed limit is always enforceable, irrespective of the reason for it. We do not need to justify, or provide reasoning for, a lowered speed limit for that limit to be legally enforceable by the police.

 

Whatever the reason for the setting, the speed limit you see displayed will always be enforceable.

 

When the speed limit changes

When a change in speed limit or a closed lane signal is detected, the relevant enforcement device performs a self-check procedure, at which point vehicles passing it may notice a flash from the equipment. This flash does not necessarily indicate that your vehicle has been identified as exceeding the displayed speed limit.

 

To allow drivers to reduce their speed sensibly and safely, the police ensure a minimum time delay between any change to the variable speed limit displayed and the actual enforcement of that new speed limit.

 

Any questions about enforcement should be directed to the responsible regional police constabulary.”

 

https://nationalhighways.co.uk/road-safety/variable-speed-limits/

[Hopkirk]

Thanks TCL. 

Interesting.

I'm still a bit cynical though.

[Peter Pedant]

the variable one just before the Avon Bridge was an absolute money maker for a few years

lanes went wibbly wobbly AND down to 50

[Auntypoll]

17.17 Naomi are you seriously saying that motorway advisory signs are a money making exercise? I suggest you watch the programme' motorway' a documentary series on the highways agency to see what sorts of challenges these people deal with every day and the idiots who disregard the advisories putting themselves and other road users in danger.

[New Judge]

"17.17 Naomi are you seriously saying that motorway advisory signs are a money making exercise?"

The signs under discussion here are not "advisory". They are mandatory. Anything in a red circle informs drivers of something which they must or must not do.  

[Ellipsis]

Let me put it like this. A driver goes up a motorway at 2:00am at 52mph for 0.75 miles. At the start of that 0.75 miles, the speed limit was 70mph. At the end of that 0.75 miles, the speed limit was also 70mph. During that time, she passes nobody and nobody passes her. But during that 0.75 miles, she was clocked at 52 mph and prosecuted, in the exact same way as if she was driving along a busy dual 40mph carriageway at school closing time. 

[THECORBYLOON]

It's gone from empty motorway to cars behind your friend's car and travelling at 52  during a half-mile distance changes to 0.75 mile.

If your friend intends challenging the NIP, I hope she's more consistent with her story than you are.

[Ellipsis]

TCL, I said "a driver", not "my friend", to show in a very simple way how ridiculous this scenario was. Everything I've written about my friend is true, why would I lie about it? And why would you try to catch me out? There's no point.