Is there a god?

[LeedsRhinos]

Is there a god? I mean look at all the different relgions around the world who all believe that THEY are right & the others are wrong. They can't all be right can they. Which is why in my opion it all rubbish.

[verbiphobe]

As a matter of fact I'm agnostic. Did you read the quote from Mencken, ir? Can't say it clearer than that. There is a Chinese proverb( i love quotes) "to be uncertain is uncomfortable, but to be certain is ridiculous."

[Azimov]

It is quite apparent that you are agnostic Verbiphobe, and that as a christian (a Catholic no less) you would rather not question your beliefs LR, that too is clear! The overriding factor in both your arguments is this: you would rather live a lie which offers hope of eternal salvation in "heaven" than spend your relatively short 70+ years believing that there is no god and no afterlife! THAT is the reason you belive what you do. THAT is why you refuse to even contemplate the alternative. THAT is why you argue against the evidence and offer nothing but hearsay and "morality" as reasons for your belief! Why can't you offer up questions such as "The evolution of the eye" or "gaps in the Geological record" as arguments in defence of Creation vs Evolution? Could it be because you are too ignorant and can only offer knee-jerk responses to comments that offend your indoctrinated, weak-minded, brainwashed mindsets? Like I said before, if you can't offer anything concrete, get back to your Bible and leave the discussion to those who actually have a considered opinion! Get with it or get out!

[Azimov]

Sismitch, you are too young and inexperienced to offer a considered opinion and I therefore ask you, respectfully, to take some time to examine your beliefs before committing yourself to one camp or the other. I have to say that, anyone reading this thread in order to gain some kind of perspective on the subject, will find little to convince himself/herself either way simply because there has been precious few arguments of any substance to latch on to. Come on guys... there are many more avenues to explore beyond the "I believe because my parents taught me and I read the Bible and it said..."! "Religious belief" is a far more complex and contentious issue than has been shown thus far. My take on it? Religious belief is a genetic predisposition and one which has proven advantageous in the evolution of the human species over the last several thousand years. The time is right come to re-examine our beliefs and move on with a new found understanding of the universe and our place within it! The need to believe in a God or Gods is finally over.

[el duerino]

religious belief is not a genetic disposition, however the social and cultural phenomenon of religion takes advantage of several inbuilt traits such as fear of the unknown, the herd instinct and the desire to be loved and card for.

[sismitch]

I received the holy spirit as a guide because I asked for one, which I don't think you did el duerino. And who says I am to young to speak my mind! Come on people! I have just as much right to express my opinion as everybody else does. If you people don't want to look deep into your soul and search for answers, who am I to tell you! But I do have one question to ask. Do you believe in the devil?

[verbiphobe]

Azimov you want to check your dictionary(if you own one) on "agnostic" . Agnosticism means questioning everything and accepting nothing, particularly the dogma of the Bible. It means keeping your mind open to all possibilities, except those which are precluded by logical contemplation and experience. I have utter contempt for the catholic church. To describe it as the "***** of Satan" is an understatement in my opinion. Your little tracassarie demonstrates that heathens are little better. Try reading my earlier posts and think about them for a moment.

[verbiphobe]

*****????Come on Ed give us a break, I mean "*****" is in the Bible. I think I'll go back to Amazon. It's more expensive but at least you end up with a book.

[stoo_pid]

Badriyah states: "No religions can't all be right. So therefore, there must be one which is the Truth." Sorry mate, not necessarily. The problem with arguing which religion is the *true* one is it frequently results in war. Or, in other words, one group of people killing another group of people to prove whose imaginary friend is the best.

[Azimov]

Verbiphobe, your "agnosticism" is nothing more than an excuse to do nothing other than sit on the fence and allow yourself the freedom to criticise others for their beliefs be they for or against the existence of God! Your stance is possibly the most reprehensible of all! At least Sisimitch and LR, misguided though they may be, at least have the courage of their convictions to stand up and be counted! You, on the other hand, prefer to stand on the sidelines and throw stones at both sides! Does that make you feel superior? I fear "open mindedness" in your case is just a pseudonym for "hedging your bets". Come on guys, bring something solid to the debate!

[el duerino]

I would be interested in the arguments which you consider most convincing in the case against god azimov?

[Azimov]

You raise an interesting point El Duerino! What would I consider a convincing argument against the existence of God? That's a damn fine question and a valid one, much better than the crap we've seen so far! OK, I guess, anyone who uses spiritual reasons (ie, why can't we fly when birds can? or Why can't we breathe underwater when it would be an obvious advantage?) invalidate themselves immediately simply because they infer the existence of an almighty being driving us toward a state of perfection! Never mind the "Free Will" argument that lets God out when "He/She" fails us! I think I'd prefer to see a convincing argument in SUPPORT of a god or gods! I cannot, for the life of me, describe a situation in which I'd be convinced that there is (or was ever) a god! Even if "He" stood before me and said "I am your God!" I like to think that I'd have the presence of mind to realise that the event was an obvious mental aberration and seek treatment! I've always maintained that to believe in something simply because I have an overwhelming desire to believe in that something, is a very, very bad thing. That's why I cannot respect those who quote The Bible to make their case! That's why I cannot respect Christian Scientists! That's why I detest those who look down their collective noses at those of us who have given a great deal of thought to the subject, simply because they attended some "social club" and think they are party to some secret info and they know something the rest of us don't! I also detest those who think that just because they are Christians they have the monopoly on morality! I better stop here before I raise more questions than I answer.

[habiba]

YES THERE IS GOD read what badriyah has answered and he has provided you with some knowledge seek it and youll find god good luck.

[habiba]

YES THERE IS its hard for you to belive cause youre not trying hard enough badriyah has provided you with some websites. you seek knowledge from there look every where youre surrounded by his creation.does that not make you understand. the food you eat the clothes you wear miracles is every where just take time to see open those eyes.dont walk in the dark

[el duerino]

prove it. we're not trying hard enough? I'd say if I wasn't convinced, the omnipotent being isn't trying particularly hard, but maybe thats just me . . . habiba it doesn't appear you have ever considered other possibilities, I fear like others you have been indoctrinated from a young age. open your mind.

[the357bullet]

to you true believers, if there was a god wouldn't he want the vatican to use that wealth to help people along with their prayers. wouldn't priests be scared to be pediphiles, wouldn't evangelists fear his wrath for stealing money to better their lives. and you hypocrites believe that god is there for you but show contempt rather than compassion. i would also bet if jesus christ came back and said he was jesus christ he would either be killed are locked in a mental hospital, because you true believers have faith in an entity and wouldn't have true faith he was who he said he was.

[Azimov]

I fear arguments against religion citing priests and evangelists as "evil" or "immoral" will fall on deaf ears since it's all too easy to dismiss them as failures. The religious simply discard those individuals with impunity because they are "only human" and are therefore subject to "human" failings! Remember, religion always has it's cake and will always eat it with relish! Every avenue (except the logical) has been explored and headed off over two thousand years by zealots who guarded the stories and myths handed down over the generations as "experts" or "guardians of the truth" and, until relatively recently, had control of the printed word. It is only in the last century or so that the common man has been able to educate himself to the level that he could question the validity of what he has been conditioned to accept. The result? Well, you're seeing it here, live and uncut! Finally, many are questioning and many are coming to the conclusion that "God" is a myth and that we have been lied to, exploited and manipulated! This is a revolution and I'm proud to say that many are beginning to finally come to the logical conclusion that the church (in all it's forms) no longer has the power to influence our beliefs. In my opinion, it is a supreme irony that Christianity promotes itself using the words "the truth" when it is the biggest lie ever perpetrated since time began! I suppose those of you who still consider my stance as misguided or ignorant might take some false solace in the idea that I just hate Christians and that I am prejudiced against you as a group! Don't get me wrong, I detest ALL religion equally! If it seems that I attack Christianity over all others then perhaps that's because Christianity is the cult I have most experience with! Yes, cult! A cult is still a cult in my view, no matter how many members it attains.

[van_essa]

Is there a god? Of course there is, the one in the Bible is the real God. He is loving and caring and cares for all of you. How else did this world begin? The Big Bang? Yeah right, that hardly makes sense, we would have needed a creator with a creative mind, (God). Actually take the time to read the Bible, read Genesis, thats the real truth, and I know it.

[el duerino]

so let me get this straight - the god of the bible, the biggest mass murderer of humanity in history - yes more than Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot put together, responsible for worse atrocities than Herod ever was, is loving and caring. hmmmm, lets think about that one shall we? You people crack me up. have you actually read the bible? Floods, fire and brimstone, slaughters, sacrifices, plagues and pestilence, all caused DIRECTLY by god, no human interference necessary. what a guy! but funny that we have not had a verifiable miracle in the last few hundred years where logic and reason has been applied. why has god stopped appearing? As for the big bang theory, it may not be perfect, but it is backed up by our current level of understanding in science. let me ask you a question - why do we need an intelligent creator? if god is more intelligent that us, he would need a MORE intelligent creator - use your mind, its illogical to think otherwise. presumably you believe the world was created in 7 days then? if I handed you a book about how I believe the world was made, would you believe it? so why do you attach so much importance to the bible? because its old? factually inaccurate? contains thousands of contradictions, both logical and of the christian faith? have you ever read any other holy books? the Torah? the Qu'ran? thought not. Your mind is too small - open it.

[I.R.]

So much fire, Azimov, so much anger!!! Why does the very idea that God exists fill you with so much hate?? Why not live, and let live? I could call you stupid, arrogant, ignorant, misguided, for not believing in God. I could call your postings crap, too. But I don't. I think you should take a cue from that. If you think people who believe in God do not have anything sensible to say, perhaps you shouldn't be part of this debate! You're more suited to an "Atheists anonymous" group, where you'll all agree with yourselves over cups of tea, or something. And the name is I.R, not LR.

[el duerino]

the idea that god exists does not annoy me IR. the fact that so many people believe it like stupid, unquestioning sheep, indoctrinated from birth by a cannibalistic cult masquerading as a force for good, while at the same time condemning all those who reject her to hell (eternal suffering) and preaching that mankind is inherently flawed - that annoys me. If we are that way, its the way we were made - god knew this would happen. if we are like this, he wanted it this way. Its like cutting off someones leg and then pretending you're a great bloke by helping to carry them. Can you look through the terror you must face when consdering there is no god to see that?