Is there a god?

[LeedsRhinos]

Is there a god? I mean look at all the different relgions around the world who all believe that THEY are right & the others are wrong. They can't all be right can they. Which is why in my opion it all rubbish.

[verbiphobe]

I presume the epithet "Azimov" is a corruption of "Asimov", referring to Isaac Asimov, the Russian-born American writer.It may interest some to know that Asimov was a humanist who was tolerant of those who held religious beliefs.He also disliked opinionated and dogmatic people. In light of this information I would suggest that "Azimov" change his epithet to something more appropriate; like "Rabidbigot" or " Monomaniac". Azimov your arguments are as old and lame as those of the fundamentalists. Have you read Roger Penrose, Stephen Hawking, Francis Crick, Brian Greene or Richard Feynman on this subject? No of course not....they're all agnostics.

[Azimov]

I.R, I'm not asking you to attempt to convince me, I'm asking you to offer reasoned arguments for the existence of god! There is a difference. I'd like to know just what it is that convinces you, or indeed if you cannot offer anything of the kind, why you would continue to believe! I've given many reasons why I don't believe, or rather, why I believe what I believe! Snipe and counter-snipe is no argument at all and religious dogma is all you seem to be regurgitating so I ask you again, "Why do you believe"? Verbiphobe, Your post is full of irony, You call me a bigot yet you argue in defence of religious belief, perhaps you might have another look in your dictionary. You tell me that Asimov "disliked opinionated and dogmatic people" yet he was one of the most opinionated, arrogant, argumentative and confrontational individuals who ever walked the earth! Haven't you even read the preface to any of his books? He is, in fact, quite unapologetic in his criticism of others whom he considers "misguided" or downright stupid when writing about science or writing poor science fiction. But he was an agnostic and tolerant to other's religious beliefs so I guess that's alright then, huh? Just because these people (your list) are intelligent, educated people and do not share my belief doesn't mean they are right and I am wrong. I haven't read The Dhammapada, The Qur'an, The Torah or The Confucian Analects. I know next to nothing about Zoroastrianism or Taoism! So what? Don't quote authors at me, it's pointless. For every author who supports your belief there are probably several who support mine. Instead, why don't you offer something of what you learned from your exhaustive research on the subject. Give us something to support your belief which we cannot refute or explain. Something that might show where we athiests are wrong or ignorant and you agnostics and christians (or other) are correct and enlightened. Or haven't you read your own booklist?

[WALSHJO]

What on earth am I here for?

[Azimov]

WALSHJO: What am I here For? AZIMOV: Comic Relief? :)

[WALSHJO]

Azimov - for Whom?

[Azimov]

Well Walshjo, if there is a god then we are here for his amusement/entertainment. I imagine being omnipotent and all-powerful must get boring after a few billion millennia! I guess He got tired of all the humdrum eon to eon business of making planets and stars and finally created us and all our little foibles, set up a few rules to allow us to damn ourselves to eternal pain, then set us loose upon each other. You have to admit, as a species we are more than qualified for the job aren't we? Or more likely you are simply here because your parents were here, and your parents' parents were here, and your parents' parents' parents were here... I wasn't suggesting for a moment that you were here (on this website) for our amusement if that's what you thought!

[andrew1971]

if we believe that God is am man in a white cloak with a long white beard then we probably off the mark. I was always told that we are all our own God. we pray to ourselves as a kind of target to reach. So there fore each one of us is God to ourself.

[aguiltinside]

i am 14...and i kinda not much but kinda feel bad that i dont believe in a god...i wuld like 2 but i have my reasons. fisrt of all,there are other "religions" or watever that believe in like Alla or sumthin like that...if "god" created everything and brought life 2 everything,then which was it?..i mean there are soo many "religions" and "gods" out there...which 1 are we supposed 2 believe created us?...and how do we kno that there really was a jesus?....we dont know any of this stuff...soo why do we believe in sumthing we dont know really happened or exists?...i think it's kindve a lie...and god is just an excuse we wuld like 2 believe made and created us...whatever though if people wanna believe inthat then watever but i feel this way...and i also think that we people who dont believe in god should be treated the same...not like we're sum kinda "devil" worshiper cuz i honestly dont believe in that 1 either...it all just seems very suppersticious 2 me

[Captions]

I think I will repeat my question- because no one seems to be able to answer it- or ty to tell me why it shouldn't be answered. Azimov- the very fact that you stick around is pathetic- what are you trying to prove- that you are so smart, and others are not? your arguments are at least as ridiculous as anyone else's are.If the subject bugs you, why do you persue it? "or get out" - talk about baseless ego!

[Ari]

There is a God, if you read the bible you will realise this. Also its absurd to think that the human body was formed from several beneficiary accidents. We have clearly been designed by a loving creator. When is everyone going to wake up and realize this? Also does everyone just ignore what Jesus said and did. Do you all no why he is the most famous person ever, because he said he was God in the flesh, and he proved it by conquering death.

[moonunit100]

I think that the existence of God can only be WITHIN someone. Those who beleive in God have faith, this trait will affect their personality in some way. Their behaviour will be modified and this can be observed, anything that can be observed does exist. For this reason, if someone believes in God he DOES exist, at least to them. In this way, it is possible for God to exist and not exist at the same time. I personally don't beleive, so God doesn't exist within me or my life. My Mother does beleive and so, with God in her, he definately does exist in her world. This cannot be denied.

[Azimov]

Caption, instead of jumping down my throat, why don't you actually repeat the question you said you were going to... but didn't! Quote:"I think I will repeat my question- because no one seems to be able to answer it-" Er... doesn't your post suggest that others are ill equipped to reply in an educated fashion to your comments? If, as you state, you have a problem with any of my comments then why don't you select one of them and take me to task on it? You call my arguments rediculous but you don't even select one and offer an alternative! You call me pathetic for sticking around but I suspect I annoy you personally because you have no arguments with which to reply! Prove me wrong Caption. Choose a particular point and lets discuss it! I'd welcome your input!

[Clanad]

I'm not sure that it is a display of wisdom to become involved in this discussion... however, I noticed there was a 14 year old that appeared to sincerely be seeking answers. So I'll hold my nose and jump in. There are several contributors that obviously have a deep seated rancor to religion, especially Christianity. However there has to be a basis for reasoned argument. I noticed that when a Christian refers to Scripture the response in this forum is denigrate the reliance on these writings. It's also readily apparent that those doing the denigrating have no understanding of the historical significance, origination of the writings, or their relationship to scientific reasoning. Additionally, I would submit that, based on the hyperbole injected by the naysayers, you are not only cutting off any real debate, but defending your own faith. Your statements that God does not exist are as much based on faith as those that maintain that God does exist. You can't "prove" God does not exist any more than I can "prove" he does. However, a reasoned discussion can lead to a more resoning atmosphere. Isaiah records in Chapter 1, verse 18 "Come let us reason together", says the Lord... I, for one would be willing to provide reasoned arguments for belief in the God of the Bible (Old and New Testaments), but ad hominem attacks certainly closes down such debate. So, what will it be?

[Captions]

Azimov- Ever done this?- imagine- you are standing at the door , you have your coat and boots on- and your arms are full, keys in your hand, you discover you have forgotten something-(maybe your wallet-) So you ask your (kids)- to hand it to you-"It's right there"- (your spouse) "I put it right there" your (friend)- "It's right beside the...." "are you sure?" "I can't see it" "Are you sure you put it on the...?" So, it is left up to you to sigh, put down your packages, kick off your boots , trudge through the house and pick up the wallet,(let's say) which was as you described it, and where you said. Trying to describe God to people like you, is like you standing at the door- Not malicious or anything, but YOU could find your (wallet) because you KNEW it was there. Others in your house only heard about it. So- I know exactly where God is- He is mine, and the sin is my own- The question was- If you think that you are just another animal with no special (I read devine) affiliation why is it that man is the only animal with no home on earth? You don't, you know- you have to form your surroundings to fit you- Why is it that all races of man, from the most undeveloped to the most sophisticated have made or found something to themselves which is a deity? I know you can't, with the best will in the world, find MY(wallet) because you don't KNOW that it is there. But I do hope that you find your own, and that it is good and that is is tough in you, and requires you to do the best you can.... Personally I am sick of what people do to the Word, in whatever language it is written-for whatever faith. I find NO mention of hell in the Bible- I have looked. And if you have an immortal soul, what is death? To an immortal soul, it's only part of a journey.The horrible part of life is what man does to man-and to holy words- for there own selfish, twisted purpose.I hope you see this as an answer.

[I.R.]

To add to what Clanad has so rightly pointed out, Azimov has been downright insultive in most of his posts. This is supposed to be a debate: air your views, but listen to the other party as well. But when someone rudely dismisses an opposing view, filled, as Azimov is, with his own overbloated sense of importance, it gets really annoying. Which is why Verbiphobe got thoroughly cheesed off, which is why I also decided not to continue with the discussion, if I'm going to keep getting comments like: "That's why I cannot respect those who quote The Bible to make their case!" "Could it be because you are too ignorant and can only offer knee-jerk responses to comments that offend your indoctrinated, weak-minded, brainwashed mindsets?".... "if you can't offer anything concrete, get back to your Bible and leave the discussion to those who actually have a considered opinion!" ***I can quote a dozen more insulting comments from Azimov, but let's leave it at that.

[Merlin]

Getting back to ChrisD's original question: Each individual must ask himself(/herself)whether he believes that there is a God (personally, I generally take 'God' to mean the God of the Roman Catholic Christian faith) And then to ask himself why he does/does not believe that there is a God. Then ask himself why he believes/doesn't believe. If you believe , do you also have faith? Keep asking yourself 'Why?' until you run out of answers. Do that without worrying about who is right and wrong - no-one can prove to you that God exists or does not exist. Do you believe, ChrisD, but are having doubts? Do you believe but don't want to, or is it the other way round. The question is too big for a forum like this - it should only address particular issues of the subject, like 'Did JC really come back to life?' or 'Do we have free will if there is a God?'. 'Does God exist?' is too big for this forum.

[PAPPY]

probably there is no god, but then why is there anything, maybe the big bang was god exploding, hmmmm..... so there was a god but he's gone now. its a moot question, because whether he is or ever was doesn't really matter any more. We're on our own now, we sink or swim on the collective intelligence, ambivalence, malevolence and beneficence of humanity. god can't help us and religion only makes things worse. Think for yourself and look for remnants of god in the details of life - the beauty of nature and the warmth of loved ones and the ecstasy of sex, BUT ACCEPT THAT YOU CAN NEVER KNOW. Live your life without fear of death because everything that matters is here in this world - heaven could be no better and hell could be no worse.

[el duerino]

Clanad - are you seriously suggesting the bible can be used in some form of scientific and therefore empirical study of whether god exists? Their historical significance - please, enlighten us. Origination of the writings - people wrote them? I am afraid any attempt to use the bible to justify or explain god is as easy to blow away as a feather. As for defending my faith, not at all, I simply have an absence of belief in god based on the current evidence. All god has to do is, well he knows what to do presumably. So if he doesnt do it, he doesnt exist or he doesnt want me and wishes to send me to hell. Here I am waiting . . . Anyway, shifting the burden of proof is an atrocious argument for the converted. As far as I know the current model of existence does not include an omnipotent, benevolent being. Why does man create god - well apart from the obviou connotations of that statement, it is because apparently we alone possess enough consciousness of teh surrounding world to fear the unknown. We comprehend the unknown can be bad, hence the god of gaps who rules most peoples religious sensibilities. Also, if you want reasoned debate, are you seriously suggesting that because we do not have natural homes we were created by god lol thats a good one. Classic. Sold me. As for this wallet talk, I have no wallet. Metaphorical allegories become rather tiresome. god has been described as everything under the sun. To me, most religious folk seem delusional - I class them in a similar vein as people who see pixies and unicorns. Oh but wait more people are religious so it must be true. ITs the most sickening corruptive social phenomenon ever to emerge in humanity.

[Merlin]

I think El D is getting carried away. Take a step back. There's a difference between religion and faith. Religion is the aspiration of people to the social ideal and those that follow their religion (I refer to Christianity because I don't have enough knowledge of others) are a credit to society. Whatever else you may think of 'religious' people, you cannot deny that a Christian lifestyle promotes harmony among people and if everyone followed that religion, the world would be a better place. Believing in the existence of God and having faith that that God is how the church leaders describe him are diferent issues. Can't think of worse things? - How about this - these days you can kill unborn babies by taking them from schoolgirls' wombs and you don't have to tell the parents - but you're not allowed to frighten the foxes. Don't confuse a religion and its adherents with those that would hijack and exploit the religion and its adherents for their own purposes. And respect others' views - they might even be right.

[Merlin]

Having now read through most of this discussion, I see that the atheist camp is sadly under-represented. At least under-represented by atheists who have intelligent arguments that engage with the theists' propositions intelligently and respectfully. I suspect that El Duerino does have the appropriate arguments - he has hinted at some of them - it's a pity that most of his contributions come across as rants that rubbish the faithful's views without the respect of offering an intelligent basis for his view. I am atheist and can explain the reasons for being this way and, I hope, can engage with any question or theory or analogy that a theist can raise (provided there's no appeal to fideism, of course!!). It may take a little while, but I am confident in my atheism. I have only just discovered theanswerbank and stumbled across this discourse by accident. Bring it on.