Will Cameron Fall On His Sword To Save His Party?

[pdq1]

After Nigel Farage UKIP met Rupert Murdoch he proposed that if Cameron was to step down UKIP would merge with the Tory Party giving them on paper a huge majority of voters at the next election.

We all know how leading politicians have such a feeling of self worth they hardly ever put their party first ahead of their own ambitions.

[ichkeria]

AOG, I apologise for using the word "farage"
It won't happen again

Oh, damn...

[Duncer]

I like it.....

[AB Editor]

"No longer sitting independently on the fence I see Ed, are you at last 'coming out' and declaring which side of the political fence you are sitting on? :0)"

I DO sit in the middle politically though. I'm an old fashioned liberal.

I like the EU as a concept, but it needs reform, it needs to be democratised and legitimized in the minds of the great unwashed.

This should go on your reading list AOG: http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Better-Angels-Our-Nature/dp/0141034645 it's about the decline of violence across human history, and much is dedicated to the systems which go with this decline. It's wonderfully written and heavily backed up by a vast amount of data.

I also recommend it to anyone who thinks the British Empire was a bad idea. We left those parts of the world in a agreeable and civilized state and in some cases left them with lasting democratic or nearly democratic institutions (which is a pretty big deal when you look at the mess everyone else made of it!)

[Zeuhl]

Agreed ED

Excellent book; well researched and well written and a truly Big Idea

[Noth43]

..er, isn't it the UN that has seen peace in Europe and not the EU?
...Not sure I like being labelled 'unwashed' either :/

[emmie]

i don't go for that either, great unwashed... just because we don't care to be called Europeans, or believe that the EU should hold sway over us, with it's big brother mentality...

[Zeuhl]

Noth - not really

The UN's predecessor The League of Nations didn't prevent WW2

And the UN has been spectacularly unsuccessful at preventing wars anywhere else in the world.

Europe pre-EU had a major war every 30 or 40 years plus smaller bust ups along the way.

Now, close to achieving an unprecedented 70 years of peace in Europe, the only organisational difference has been the EU.

[pdq1]

It just shows the electorate cannot judge a parties intentions just by reading a manifesto. Neither is it a judge of decisions made by the PM. Where does it state in the Tory manifesto that in the event of a hung parliament they will shed 50%+ of their committments and follow Liberal policies.

[Zeuhl]

pdq

Surely the Manifestos are intentions to enact if and when elected

None of the parties were elected.

The Tories weren't elected
The Lib Dems weren't elected

The resulting coalition was parliamentary pragmatism

[anotheoldgit]

Some have suggested that it was the word Farage was the word I took offence at, even for one to enter a thread on it, how totally ridiculous, to think that a persons name could be considered offensive.

It was the word chutzpah after Nigel Farage's surname that was unnecessary.

/// Chutzpah (/ˈhʊtspə/) ~ A Yiddish word derived from the Hebrew word ḥuṣpâ (חֻצְפָּה), meaning “insolence” or “audacity”, used indignantly to describe someone who has overstepped the boundaries of accepted behaviour. ///

/// In traditional usage, the word expresses a strong sense of disgust, condemnation and outrage. ///

/// Also used to express the ideas of “gall, brazen nerve, effrontery… presumption plus arrogance such as no other word and no other language can do justice to. ///

[AB Editor]

"...Not sure I like being labelled 'unwashed' either :/ "

"i don't go for that either, great unwashed... just because we don't care to be called Europeans, or believe that the EU should hold sway over us, with it's big brother mentality..."

I'm playing in the mud too :) I didn't mean it to exclude, but ratehr to include.

As I said previously, a EU where we are a real top-3 player bends better to our favour.

[Zeuhl]

It's taken you ages to work up that defence in the form of misleading, selective definitions.

chutpah (wiki)

/The modern English usage of the word has taken on a broader meaning, having been popularized through vernacular use in film, literature, and television. The word is sometimes interpreted -- particularly in business parlance -- as meaning the amount of courage, mettle or ardor that an individual has./

good weaselly try though

[AB Editor]

"It was the word chutzpah after Nigel Farage's surname that was unnecessary."

Fine, we find Farage's spunkiness funny!

[ichkeria]

I sometimes wonder, AOG, if you are being ironic :-)

[Noth43]

Well it wasn't that long ago the Nobel academy awarded the Peace prize to the EU and I remember the furore that ignited. The decision widely panned and the academies integrity questioned to such an extent that a Nobel prize is now coveted as much as the Ignoble prize.
May as call it the Bonel peace prize.
But what do I know? I'm just one of the great unwashed..

[AB Editor]

"The resulting coalition was parliamentary pragmatism"

And some of it has been pretty good to be honest.

[Zeuhl]

/how totally ridiculous, to think that a persons name could be considered offensive./

aog

never heard of Quisling?

or in Northern Ireland; Lundy?

[Zeuhl]

Noth

at least you know your place :-)

[emmie]

But we aren't a top three player, number one Germany, and that's it's. Whilst France under Sarkhozy looked very pally with Angela Merkel, it's not quite so cosy, with Hollande in charge.

[emmie]

surely the peace, if you could call it that is more to do with the nuclear deterrent than by any means of the UN or EU.