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Anyone Had A Change Of Mind?
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After reading this report, plus what has happened in Paris, have those who believe we should allow the hordes that are coming in from Syria, to wander freely across Europe, had a change of mind?
After reading this report, plus what has happened in Paris, have those who believe we should allow the hordes that are coming in from Syria, to wander freely across Europe, had a change of mind?
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I think there is much confusion brought about by the fact that we are looking at 3 connected, but distinctly different problems all requiring different priorities;
(1) ISIL and it's ambitions to form a Sunni Islamic Sharia state in the middle east. Which has produced;
(2) The diaspora of refugees into neighbouring countries and the EU states and
(3) A whole series of individual 'civil wars' in other countries globally.
To deal with, and remove (1) will require boots on the ground (and blood in the sand) and should not be even attempted without an absolute clear objective for the aftermath, but it will alleviate the migration crisis of (2) and allow the safe return of millions of the dispossessed.
And (3), Each country must share intelligence and resources but deal with its 'civil war' in its own manner. Any resident using terror against its own country of residence should be considered as traitors and tried for treason the act of which should be repealed as discussed last year when the Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond revealed that the British Government was considering High Treason charges for Islamic Extremists in response to growing numbers of British Jihad fighters travelling to Syria and Iraq to join the Islamic State.
(1) ISIL and it's ambitions to form a Sunni Islamic Sharia state in the middle east. Which has produced;
(2) The diaspora of refugees into neighbouring countries and the EU states and
(3) A whole series of individual 'civil wars' in other countries globally.
To deal with, and remove (1) will require boots on the ground (and blood in the sand) and should not be even attempted without an absolute clear objective for the aftermath, but it will alleviate the migration crisis of (2) and allow the safe return of millions of the dispossessed.
And (3), Each country must share intelligence and resources but deal with its 'civil war' in its own manner. Any resident using terror against its own country of residence should be considered as traitors and tried for treason the act of which should be repealed as discussed last year when the Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond revealed that the British Government was considering High Treason charges for Islamic Extremists in response to growing numbers of British Jihad fighters travelling to Syria and Iraq to join the Islamic State.
jim360
/// So, in summary, exactly none of these terror suspects are linked to the recent refugee crisis, and yet those are the people you want to target? Hmm. ///
I am not saying that, but what I am saying is should we allow even more potential terrorists into Europe in light of recent happenings?
/// Our borders shouldn't be closed, but nor should they be uncontrolled and not properly monitored. I think everybody accepts that. ///
How do you suggest that borders should be controlled and monitored, I refer you to the video?
/// So, in summary, exactly none of these terror suspects are linked to the recent refugee crisis, and yet those are the people you want to target? Hmm. ///
I am not saying that, but what I am saying is should we allow even more potential terrorists into Europe in light of recent happenings?
/// Our borders shouldn't be closed, but nor should they be uncontrolled and not properly monitored. I think everybody accepts that. ///
How do you suggest that borders should be controlled and monitored, I refer you to the video?
What do YOU think should be done about them AOG?
Send them 'home'?
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Send them 'home'?
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"They would prefer to live in a far more dangerous society than to appear even the least bit racist or xenophobic"
What a ridiculous and crass thing to say. This isn't about avoiding being "a bit racist or xenophobic" these are desperate people fleeing the atrocities of an extremely nasty war. Have you seen the photos of mothers wandering around with their dead children in their arms? Children with the tops of their heads blown off? What is left of their "home"?
What a ridiculous and crass thing to say. This isn't about avoiding being "a bit racist or xenophobic" these are desperate people fleeing the atrocities of an extremely nasty war. Have you seen the photos of mothers wandering around with their dead children in their arms? Children with the tops of their heads blown off? What is left of their "home"?
Answerprancer
/// What do YOU think should be done about them
AOG? ///
/// Send them 'home'? ///
Surely they don't all live in that particular spot do they?
/// I like how your carefully chosen video clip refers to these poor people and their children as "illegals". ///
How else would they be described, once they left the first safe country they no longer are refugees (that is if they were in the first instance) but illegals.
They are entering a country illegally, therefore illegals couldn't be any more clearer than that.
/// What do YOU think should be done about them
AOG? ///
/// Send them 'home'? ///
Surely they don't all live in that particular spot do they?
/// I like how your carefully chosen video clip refers to these poor people and their children as "illegals". ///
How else would they be described, once they left the first safe country they no longer are refugees (that is if they were in the first instance) but illegals.
They are entering a country illegally, therefore illegals couldn't be any more clearer than that.
\\
I am not saying that, but what I am saying is should we allow even more potential terrorists into Europe in light of recent happenings?
\\
What makes them "potential terrorists", though? It's not enough, in my opinion, to say that simply being a refugee makes you a potential terrorist. We still have, do we not, the notion of presumed innocence?
As to how the borders should be controlled, no idea. Better than they are at the moment, at any rate.
I am not saying that, but what I am saying is should we allow even more potential terrorists into Europe in light of recent happenings?
\\
What makes them "potential terrorists", though? It's not enough, in my opinion, to say that simply being a refugee makes you a potential terrorist. We still have, do we not, the notion of presumed innocence?
As to how the borders should be controlled, no idea. Better than they are at the moment, at any rate.
Depends how serious and efficiently you wish to control your borders Jim.
The East Germans managed to split Germany very efficiently. Double razor wire fences.anti-personnell mines.dogs.armed patrols. watch towers.search lights.
A few got through by swimming,and tunneling but in the main they could of stemmed this current invasion in their manner I am sure.
The East Germans managed to split Germany very efficiently. Double razor wire fences.anti-personnell mines.dogs.armed patrols. watch towers.search lights.
A few got through by swimming,and tunneling but in the main they could of stemmed this current invasion in their manner I am sure.
“I like how your carefully chosen video clip refers to these poor people and their children as "illegals".”
Well, like it or not, that’s exactly what they are. They have arrived without leave to land or remain and unless they present themselves to the authorities in the first safe country they arrive (which few of them do, many having arrived from a safe country and many more intending to travel elsewhere) they remain “illegals” (i.e. arrivals who have not complied with the immigration requirements). So let’s not beat about the bush by inventing fancy names for them.
The clip also supports my contention that what Europe is currently witnessing is an invasion. There’s no other word for the mass arrival of hundreds of thousands of people not entitled to land, who have not been invited (leaving aside the crass intervention of Frau Merkel) and who will resort to violence and disorder to get what they want. They may not have guns, but it is an invasion. Whilst it is important, whether they are terrorists or not (and there has been at least one amongst them) is scarcely the point.
Well, like it or not, that’s exactly what they are. They have arrived without leave to land or remain and unless they present themselves to the authorities in the first safe country they arrive (which few of them do, many having arrived from a safe country and many more intending to travel elsewhere) they remain “illegals” (i.e. arrivals who have not complied with the immigration requirements). So let’s not beat about the bush by inventing fancy names for them.
The clip also supports my contention that what Europe is currently witnessing is an invasion. There’s no other word for the mass arrival of hundreds of thousands of people not entitled to land, who have not been invited (leaving aside the crass intervention of Frau Merkel) and who will resort to violence and disorder to get what they want. They may not have guns, but it is an invasion. Whilst it is important, whether they are terrorists or not (and there has been at least one amongst them) is scarcely the point.
Jim
Yes they have now haven't they. Who would of though I.S. could hit the same target in as many months. If you don't take it serious there is no point in sitting there wringing your hands and saying something must be done but what?. I have offered a serious solution to a very serious problem. No use saying,"Oooooh that sounds nasty. I don't like that" I am sure Europeans have a change of heart and don't like looking over their shoulder all the time now even though they put a gallant face on it all.
Yes they have now haven't they. Who would of though I.S. could hit the same target in as many months. If you don't take it serious there is no point in sitting there wringing your hands and saying something must be done but what?. I have offered a serious solution to a very serious problem. No use saying,"Oooooh that sounds nasty. I don't like that" I am sure Europeans have a change of heart and don't like looking over their shoulder all the time now even though they put a gallant face on it all.
I'm just saying that it's ironic indeed if the solution to the migrant crisis comes from stealing the methods of a country as far to the left as you could get!
It's not the border security solution I had in mind, either -- I'm thinking of something closer to one where people are still allowed in but only after proper border controls and security checks.
It's not the border security solution I had in mind, either -- I'm thinking of something closer to one where people are still allowed in but only after proper border controls and security checks.
jim360
/// What makes them "potential terrorists", though? It's not enough, in my opinion, to say that simply being a refugee makes you a potential terrorist. ///
The present situation in the Middle East, the breeding ground of ISIS, the fact that most if not all of them are Muslim, I think just these two alone are sufficient qualifications for them to be classed potential terrorists.
/// We still have, do we not, the notion of presumed innocence? ///
Until found guilty I presume? Well yes certainly, that is why I described them not as terrorists, but potential terrorists.
/// What makes them "potential terrorists", though? It's not enough, in my opinion, to say that simply being a refugee makes you a potential terrorist. ///
The present situation in the Middle East, the breeding ground of ISIS, the fact that most if not all of them are Muslim, I think just these two alone are sufficient qualifications for them to be classed potential terrorists.
/// We still have, do we not, the notion of presumed innocence? ///
Until found guilty I presume? Well yes certainly, that is why I described them not as terrorists, but potential terrorists.
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