Freeeeeedom!

[ToraToraTora]

what else can I say........

[KARL]

If nothing else, chrissa's best answer well demonstrates the human preference for and therefore the inevitable success of vilification of someone/something resulting among the majority in the style of shunning witnessed among die-hard religious sects - the act (of vilification), even when quietly stated (almost unnoticed although deep-rooted) takes on distinctly religious tones and passion. Brexit is just another entry in the catalogue. Calls for tolerance, co-operation, etc. will often work only for a limited time because a combination of vested interests and bigotry have a very good chance of getting the upper hand - but not among everyone all the time. The simple fact is that, as much as the UK incessantly commemorates/celebrates some aspect of past wars on pretty much a weekly basis (saying daily would be going too far), disagreement/division/conflict does/do not serve humanity well and in the end lasting agreement and unity is the answer. Until that is promoted with at least equal fervour to the opposite, life will be a series of hard lessons.

[naomi24]

Jim, //AB's average poster is more conservative and more in favour of Brexit than the average UK citizen. //

Is that true? Forget the referendum - didn't the General Election tell you something - or did you clap your hands over your ears because the result wasn't what you wanted to hear?

[jim360]

It was a stunning summation of how badly Brexiters understand support for the EU. I suppose that makes it BA in this echo chamber, but then I would say that I suppose.

[tiggerblue10]

I was against leaving for a long time after the cote but I have now come round to thinking its for the best. No more dictatorship from Brussels!

I'm am glad too that we did not adopt the Euro.

[jim360]

Yes, I think it's reasonably true. The result in 2019 didn't shock me for a moment, I'd seen it coming a mile off. But the raw figures from that election still indicated a roughly divided nation, compared to the very much Tory-skewed membership here.

Although now you come to mention it I suppose I should probably partially credit AB for the fact that the 2019 result didn't shock me.

[naomi24]

Jim, //It was a stunning summation of how badly Brexiters understand support for the EU.//

It was a stunning summation of the country’s determination to see democracy fulfilled. Brexiteers don’t ‘need’ to know why Remainers support the EU - it’s irrelevant.

[ToraToraTora]

jim:"It was a stunning summation of how badly Brexiters understand support for the EU" - no one ever told us why we should remain, they just tried to frighten us enough to not leave.

[Zacs-Master]

I did. Several times.

[jim360]

Just to add that the other dominant factor in 2019 was the Corbyn question. I don't mean to say that if you'd had a second referendum on the deal that it would have been decisively in favour of Remaining, or perhaps in favour of Remaining at all, but it's an important point all the same.

Still that was another reason I was so angry at the end of last year. It should have been obvious what Johnson's strategy was, and Corbyn, Swinson, and the SNP leaders seemed determined to allow him free rein to execute it. The SNP benefitted because, of course, it suits them to have a Tory government so that they can call it the enemy; Corbyn and Swinson paid for their conceit with their jobs.

[jim360]

// no one ever told us why we should remain, they just tried to frighten us enough to not leave. //

And for that I blame the leaders of the Remain campaign. I tried myself to explain why I wanted to stay, as opposed to merely why I didn't want to leave.

Still, now that you have your victory, I hope that puts an end to the VBQ insult?

[chrissa1]

Offended? Not at all, TTT. birdie’s post was absolutely spot on and deserves, BA.

[Old_Geezer]

Birdie's reply is impressive, but two points I picked up on. Not all left wingers are anti sovereignty. And one ought not moan about being called names lest you get identified as a snowflake. Besides gammon is soooo tasty.

[ToraToraTora]

ZM/Jim, you guys did attempt to be positive about remaining but I'm not really talking about on here I'm talking about the wider remain campaign. They focused on project fear instead of extolling the virtues of the EUSSR. They chose to ridicule us, look down their noses at us Wretches that refused to see the magnificence of their vision. If there is one thing that will lose you the public it is looking down your noses at them. The remain campaign underestimated the feeling in the nation, their campaign started when the referendum was called, ours started in 1973.

[mushroom25]

//Just to add that the other dominant factor in 2019 was the Corbyn question. //

everyone's blaming Jezza for labour's disastrous fence-sitting Brexit policy, while conveniently forgetting that it was voted in by conference on a show of hands with the decisive backing of Momentum. who are now blaming labour's defeat on that same Brexit policy while conveniently forgetting their part in it at conference.

[Zacs-Master]

Nothings proven yet. How can you say they were wrong 1 day into the transition period?

[Mozz71]

//Is that true? Forget the referendum - didn't the General Election tell you something//

It told us more about Corbyn than it did about Brexit. I think that Labour would've done much better if they had gotten off the fence and supported something concrete, either Remain or a second referendum.

I'm not saying they'd have won, that was never gonna happen, but they may have lost closer.

[ToraToraTora]

jim VBQC is not an insult it's a correct labelling for those that tried to prevent democracy, mainly the HOC pre GE and a few others, eg Gina Miller, Terry Christian etc not your good self and others who have remained gentlemen and ladies throughout.

[Togo]

Chrissa shows us all, and particularly the loser Remainiacs, how to take a setback on the chin and remain courteous and magnanimous.

[Mozz71]

Unfortunately 3T, it's often been picked up to use against any remainer. That is when "remoaner" isn't being used.

[mushroom25]

// They chose to ridicule us, look down their noses at us Wretches that refused to see the magnificence of their vision. //

no better example of that than at this week's NTA. Flea Bag and Afterlife, beloved by the intelligentsia who proclaim Phoebe Waller-Bridge's ascendancy to godlike status, beaten by Mrs Brown's Boys. The public, unwashed though they might be, don't take kindly to being dictated to.