Are Labour Preparing To Dump The P M ?
News2 mins ago
No Going Back To Work
246 Answers
Apparently, people who needn’t go back to work aren’t going back to work.
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Is this inevitable? So many office jobs are far from useful, involving moving bits of paper around, or making phone calls, that people just aren’t going to miss a few million office workers not turning up.
A bit like many hospital clinic consultations, just as effective done by telephone, people might be waking up to the tremendous waste of time that society indulges in.
https:/
Is this inevitable? So many office jobs are far from useful, involving moving bits of paper around, or making phone calls, that people just aren’t going to miss a few million office workers not turning up.
A bit like many hospital clinic consultations, just as effective done by telephone, people might be waking up to the tremendous waste of time that society indulges in.
Answers
Sometimes you are impossible to argue with
10:22 Fri 11th Sep 2020
Alright, back-tracking a bit.
Leaving aside the question of whether most of our jobs need doing, the question of whether we all need to jump intocars or trains and congregate in office blocks is a separate issue, and while it might lead to marital disharmony, the answer seems to be arising that we might as well stay at home.
This choice, of course, excludes the diminishing but still substantial number of factory workers, farm workers, front-line hospital staff, who might all love to work from home, but can’t!
Leaving aside the question of whether most of our jobs need doing, the question of whether we all need to jump intocars or trains and congregate in office blocks is a separate issue, and while it might lead to marital disharmony, the answer seems to be arising that we might as well stay at home.
This choice, of course, excludes the diminishing but still substantial number of factory workers, farm workers, front-line hospital staff, who might all love to work from home, but can’t!
//If working from home means a business saves money, is more productive and boosts income and profits, why should they be forced to lose those benefits to keep other businesses afloat?//
Because the society we live in is full of interdependencies. Of course things change. But they evolve, with each of the interdependent factions evolving together. The changes that happened in March were not evolutionary. They were revolutionary and society as a whole cannot cope with such a rapid revolution without adverse consequences. The consequences in this case will be vast swathes of the working population thrown out of work. This is already happening and what we've seen so far is just the tip of the iceberg. The companies that have saved a few bob by not having the expenses of an office to meet will see that the customers they have (and whom they are not serving very well at present) will diminish. First will be those buying luxury goods and services; then will come those buying the "would like but can't afford" variety; then people will begin to cut back on basics and necessities. There will be less money around so all companies will see less revenue. Many of those thrown out of work will be victims of the companies (or their staff) that they serve who have upped sticks and left their offices. It's blindingly obvious that if huge numbers of people become unemployed then all companies - including those who thought they were laughing because they've saved the rent and rates on their offices - will suffer.
Whilst that's a very valid argument it isn't mine. My argument is far simpler - companies who have made these radical changes "to keep people safe" [chuckle, chuckle] are providing shoddy service for their customers and unsuitable conditions for their staff. If they continue to do so (and few of them appear to be making any substantial improvements) they will see their business decline and the rent money they've saved will seem like small beer.
Because the society we live in is full of interdependencies. Of course things change. But they evolve, with each of the interdependent factions evolving together. The changes that happened in March were not evolutionary. They were revolutionary and society as a whole cannot cope with such a rapid revolution without adverse consequences. The consequences in this case will be vast swathes of the working population thrown out of work. This is already happening and what we've seen so far is just the tip of the iceberg. The companies that have saved a few bob by not having the expenses of an office to meet will see that the customers they have (and whom they are not serving very well at present) will diminish. First will be those buying luxury goods and services; then will come those buying the "would like but can't afford" variety; then people will begin to cut back on basics and necessities. There will be less money around so all companies will see less revenue. Many of those thrown out of work will be victims of the companies (or their staff) that they serve who have upped sticks and left their offices. It's blindingly obvious that if huge numbers of people become unemployed then all companies - including those who thought they were laughing because they've saved the rent and rates on their offices - will suffer.
Whilst that's a very valid argument it isn't mine. My argument is far simpler - companies who have made these radical changes "to keep people safe" [chuckle, chuckle] are providing shoddy service for their customers and unsuitable conditions for their staff. If they continue to do so (and few of them appear to be making any substantial improvements) they will see their business decline and the rent money they've saved will seem like small beer.
Chelle, //The OP is about city centres, cafes, shops, businesses that service city centre workers, not paper cup manufacturers.//
But paper cup manufacturers do service city centre businesses - very much so. You mentioned bakers and cafes and rather flippantly dismissed the probability that without customers they could close. Think about that. Apart from their own staff losing jobs, who else is affected? Who provides those bakers and cafes with the food they sell to you and the equipment they use to provide it? Kitchen equipment manufacturers, distributors and maintenance people aside, there are the blokes who process the sugar and flour for the cakes and bread, there’s the farmer who provides the eggs and milk, there’s the manufacturer and wholesaler who provides the meat and cheese other fillings for the sandwiches, there’s whoever provides the bits and pieces to decorate the cakes and the companies that provide various containers for all of that including the paper bag your sausage roll is wrapped in - and not forgetting the manufacturer and supplier of that irrelevant paper cup your takeaway coffee is sold in....on and on it goes …. finishing with the now unemployed packer who worked in distribution warehouse and the poor old delivery driver who delivers no more….. all of them affected because the shop is closed and no longer requires their services.
The bottom line is in order to generate wealth, society needs business because business generates prosperity for everyone.
Just an afterthought. It would be ironic really if people working from home decide to pop out for a bit of lunch one day - and wonder where Greggs has gone.
But paper cup manufacturers do service city centre businesses - very much so. You mentioned bakers and cafes and rather flippantly dismissed the probability that without customers they could close. Think about that. Apart from their own staff losing jobs, who else is affected? Who provides those bakers and cafes with the food they sell to you and the equipment they use to provide it? Kitchen equipment manufacturers, distributors and maintenance people aside, there are the blokes who process the sugar and flour for the cakes and bread, there’s the farmer who provides the eggs and milk, there’s the manufacturer and wholesaler who provides the meat and cheese other fillings for the sandwiches, there’s whoever provides the bits and pieces to decorate the cakes and the companies that provide various containers for all of that including the paper bag your sausage roll is wrapped in - and not forgetting the manufacturer and supplier of that irrelevant paper cup your takeaway coffee is sold in....on and on it goes …. finishing with the now unemployed packer who worked in distribution warehouse and the poor old delivery driver who delivers no more….. all of them affected because the shop is closed and no longer requires their services.
The bottom line is in order to generate wealth, society needs business because business generates prosperity for everyone.
Just an afterthought. It would be ironic really if people working from home decide to pop out for a bit of lunch one day - and wonder where Greggs has gone.
//The point is that the 'market' will still be there - people will definitely still need to eat and they will continue pay money to do so. What's changed?//
The only people who will benefit will be Tesco's. Those working at home will make their own coffee and sandwiches. The people who used to make them will be out of work; the people who supply the people who used to make them (wrapping manufacturers, disposable cup suppliers, etc.) will be out of work and much of their disposable income will no longer be available; the business rates will not be paid, so depriving central government of those funds; the energy companies will lose revenue from shops left in the dark (do I need to go on?).
The only people who will benefit will be Tesco's. Those working at home will make their own coffee and sandwiches. The people who used to make them will be out of work; the people who supply the people who used to make them (wrapping manufacturers, disposable cup suppliers, etc.) will be out of work and much of their disposable income will no longer be available; the business rates will not be paid, so depriving central government of those funds; the energy companies will lose revenue from shops left in the dark (do I need to go on?).
Well, if the market works as the apologists for capitalism claim it should, then rubbish firms will go the wall, and 'good' firms will grow and prosper.
The workforce will slosh around in the bottom of the bucket, some ending up on the dole queue, waiting patiently till they are needed again, some toddling off with shiny new jobs (and cars).
And the crap will rise to the top of the barrel, as is its wont.
You either control the market and the labour force, or you leave it alone (laissez faire as PPedant would point out). I've given up advocating the former, at least with the current audience, as it's a bit like trying to sell condoms to nuns.
A
The workforce will slosh around in the bottom of the bucket, some ending up on the dole queue, waiting patiently till they are needed again, some toddling off with shiny new jobs (and cars).
And the crap will rise to the top of the barrel, as is its wont.
You either control the market and the labour force, or you leave it alone (laissez faire as PPedant would point out). I've given up advocating the former, at least with the current audience, as it's a bit like trying to sell condoms to nuns.
A
//The only people who will benefit will be Tesco's. Those working at home will make their own coffee and sandwiches.//
Maybe not - I work from home a lot and have got plenty of local sandwich shops that I go to for my lunch and coffee. And sometimes I go to the local Greggs or Subway. They pay business rates in my local area rather than somewhere miles away that I may have to commute to.
If I make my own then I'll save money which knowing me I'll no doubt spend on something else other than sandwiches and coffee - benefitting other industries than disposable cup makers.
I work in the telecoms industry and this is benefitting from the increased requirements people have due to home working so it's good for me. Selfish, that's capitalism.
Maybe not - I work from home a lot and have got plenty of local sandwich shops that I go to for my lunch and coffee. And sometimes I go to the local Greggs or Subway. They pay business rates in my local area rather than somewhere miles away that I may have to commute to.
If I make my own then I'll save money which knowing me I'll no doubt spend on something else other than sandwiches and coffee - benefitting other industries than disposable cup makers.
I work in the telecoms industry and this is benefitting from the increased requirements people have due to home working so it's good for me. Selfish, that's capitalism.
