Where Is The Real Fault Here?

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57260509
Could it possibly be our TROB approach to crime and non-punishment? Surely the savage should not have been out on the streets in the first place. Blaming the security services is like blaming the sheep dog for not rounding up all the sheep after you let them out.

[grumpy01]

One problem that has not been mentioned is the radicalisation of these susceptible young men by the fanatical clerics within the Muslim religion.I do not believe that all Muslim clerics are bad but the fanatical ones are extremely dangerous.

[naomi24]

I haven’t read the latest posts but since this terrorist wasn’t diagnosed as mentally ill I would advise AH, mozz, and any other amateur psychologists to stick to their day jobs.

[Mozz71]

Yeah, because Heaven forbid people wanting to commit mass slaughter should be psychologically damaged when we have a handy religion shared by millions of non-psychopaths we can blame instead. Not amateur psychology Naomi, just logic.

[tonyav]

No wonder the Labour Party is finished.

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - he couldn't be psychotic because he wasn't diagnosed?

If I catch a cold and a doctor doesn't diagnose it as a cold, does that mean I haven't got a cold?

You are letting your rabid hatred of Islam affect your ability to argue properly.

[emmie]

i am like Shirley, i too wonder whether we are heading for a fall in regards to the adherents of Islam. There have been 5 terrorist attacks in 5 years leaving the dead strewn about our country, when are we going to wake up and see that this religion doesn't sit with the mores of the UK, i truly fear for our future. Perhaps one shouldn't label a whole religion as something to be feared, but i do and many of you i suspect do to. The protests that have happened recently in regards to Palestine, showed thousands marching in support, which makes me incredibly uneasy, for the Jewish people who happily reside here it must also make them scared for their lives and families.

[emmie]

I reckon that as Naomi says we are fighting with one armed tied, we can't let that continue, these terrorists who end up in jail, should never see the light of day again, locked up no parole. I would happily throw away the key - anyone who thinks they can be rehabilitated should think again. The killers of Lee Rigby, one of whom was in the same prison as Usman Khan, the killer of Jack Merritt and Saskia Jones, shouldn't ever be released.

[ToraToraTora]

emmie: "Perhaps one shouldn't label a whole religion as something to be feared, but i do and many of you i suspect do to." - I don't fear them, I fear us, I fear our TROB types who will do nothing until it's too late. Islam etc is easily dealt with if we get our thumbs out of our Aprils and grow a pair.

[Peter Pedant]

// I would advise AH, mozz, and any other amateur psychologists to stick to their day jobs.//
and um will Naomi be taking her own advice and sticking to her day-job?

just wondering

anyway it doesnt matter if he was lu-lu (*) - he's dead isnt he? ( as in deceased etc)

(*) from our own dear TTT - what lu-lu den?

[Peter Pedant]

// Islam etc is easily dealt with if we get our thumbs out of our Aprils and grow a pair.//
oh come on TTT why not just say clearly

Islam etc is easily dealt with if we foo dem ( all) !

[naomi24]

AH, prisoners who commit acts of terrorism are psychologically assessed. Mozz, take note.

By the way, unlike you two and a few others here I’ve taken the trouble to learn about Islam and whilst I don’t have what you spitefully call a rabid hatred of it I do acknowledge its failings. Try it. You will no doubt learn quite a lot.

[Sunk]

Ah, the mythical Right-on-Brigade strikes again.
Who are they, where are they, Tora won’t say other than blather about nameless left wing lawyers.

But this mystery group is able to outwit the Prime Minister, the Home Secretary and the Government and run the country and make all these terrible decisions.

Unfortunately there is no evidence that TROB exists. If you bother to look at the mistakes and who makes them, you find not a cabal of lefties deliberately ruining the country, but instead a group of incompetents.
The main culprits were Sajid Javid, David Cameron and Theresa May. But also their underlings.

Policy, decisions and actions come from those actually in power, and they need to live with the consequences of those actions. Of course there will be people who try to give them a free pass, and try to blame anyone else but the useless b*st*rds they have elected. But they are just desperate to shirk blame. The last people responsible for this is the lefties, because they have been out of Government for four parliaments (11 years).

[emmie]

it seems to me to have been a complete shambles, from the police, to M15, to the probation services, all essentially are to blame for this scum to go out and murder two innocents and almost kill another.
i did watch the Police give out a statement and apologise for their part in this tragedy - just not good enough...

[ToraToraTora]

Ah gromunk me old china I wondered how long you would take to chme in:
//Ah, the mythical Right-on-Brigade strikes again.
Who are they, where are they, Tora won’t say other than blather about nameless left wing lawyers.// - it’s the general hordes of PC liberal elite thinkers who are the harbingers of the “correct” view on any given subject.
//But this mystery group is able to outwit the Prime Minister, the Home Secretary and the Government and run the country and make all these terrible decisions.// - they do it through fear, they are loud they infest the media, the civil service, the town halls etc, politicians are terrified of being labelled with “isms”
//Unfortunately there is no evidence that TROB exists. If you bother to look at the mistakes and who makes them, you find not a cabal of lefties deliberately ruining the country, but instead a group of incompetents.// - It’s all around you me old china, if you can’t see it then you ARE it.
//Policy, decisions and actions come from those actually in power, and they need to live with the consequences of those actions.// - as above they are terrified of the isms etc
// Of course there will be people who try to give them a free pass, and try to blame anyone else but the useless b*st*rds they have elected. But they are just desperate to shirk blame. The last people responsible for this is the lefties, because they have been out of Government for four parliaments (11 years).// - as above and as I’ve said twice, for most of that time they’ve been in office not in power, but I think the generation of TROB thinking has browbeaten all politicians with fear.

[naomi24]

TTT is right. We should fear ‘us’ - the well-intentioned who
assume that all
human beings think fundamentally alike and possess a similar decent
moral code - and hence give offenders the benefit of the doubt. They’re regarded as ‘useful idiots’ and for good reason.

[andy-hughes]

naomi - // We should fear ‘us’ - the well-intentioned who
assume that all
human beings think fundamentally alike and possess a similar decent
moral code - and hence give offenders the benefit of the doubt. They’re regarded as ‘useful idiots’ and for good reason. //

Were you born with insufferable sense of moral and educational superiority, or did you aquire it during your 'studies'?

[ToraToraTora]

AH: "Were you born with insufferable sense of moral and educational superiority, or did you aquire it during your 'studies'?" - were you?

[naomi24]

AH, I’m not sure but thank you for your interest.

[Zacs-Master]

Do you really need to ask that, Tora?

[Sunk]

Tora
// it’s the general hordes of PC liberal elite thinkers //
Name names.
You can’t because you know what you are saying is daft. If the past Home secretaries are not to blame, then the Government is seriously disfunctional.

// politicians are terrified of being labelled with “isms” //
No they are not. PM, Cabinet and Government are not so weak as to completely bend over a name call.

// if you can’t see it then you ARE it. //
You think attacking me for this appalling incident is clever? It isn’t, it is incredibly dumb. Boris, Priti, Javid, May and call me Dave aren’t going to cave in and do something because I have disagreed with them on AB.

// the generation of TROB thinking has browbeaten all politicians with fear. //
There are a great many useless politicians, but their problem isn’t fear, it is lack of ability.

This nonsensical TROB fantasy you have is very useful as a scapegoat. You call out this bogeyman but can’t actually name him/her. The truth is nearer to home.