Over 100 Dead And 700 Injured

[Untitled]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68434443.amp
 

israel is reported to have opened fire on a crowd of palestinians trying to get food resulting in hundreds of injuries and deaths 

the IDF initially claimed that all the deaths were due to a stampede but has since changed their story to say that they used tanks to fire "warning shots" after videos on social media appear to show israeli tanks targeting the crowd... 

eyewitnesses say that the IDF simply fired on them 

why do reports like this seem to follow the IDF whereever it goes? why doesn't the west do anything about it?

[Gromit]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68445973

[Untitled]

israel are the occupying power here khandro. that country will never be safe while its government maintains an illegal and immoral occupation of gaza the west bank and the golan heights. it should retreat back to its original borders and leave the surrounding territories well alone

[naomi24]

And what would happen to Israel it it did that, untitled?  Would Hamas and its supporters leave Israel to live in peace forever more?

[drmorgans]

 

Hezbollah, Syria, Iran?

 

[Untitled]

Hamas would not no. but gaza does not need to be conquered and occupied by israel in order to do away with hamas... the people who've had the best shot at that and come closest to succeeding are fatah whom israel treats as an enemy. i would suggest that they are best positioned to try again and could probably do it without "accidentally" massacring thousands upon thousands of civilians

[theshedman]

Israel probably treats Fatah as an enemy because of things they have done to them in the past sometimes under guises like the old PLO and others.

[Untitled]

you're a bit out of date shedman as fatah renounced terror decades ago... the reason israel treats them as enemies is because they are popular among palestinians and represent a viable political threat... they are also by far the biggest threat to hamas within the palestinian territories and could with the right means unite them

israel's goal-or that if its present govt anyway- is not peace, it is conquest and to do that they need to keep the leadership of gaza and the west bank divided. that is why they sponsored hamas through the 2010s and kept the peaceful palestinian factions at arms length 

[theshedman]

"you're a bit out of date shedman as fatah renounced terror decades ago."  Yet they are said to be meeting with Hamas who want nothing less than to see the state of Israel destroyed.  As it seems you are all for the Palestinians can you tell me why it is that no neighbouring country wants any of them to live in them.

[theshedman]

Forgot to add, I worked between Israel and Egypt back in the 80s and none of the Egyptians I worked with wanted them in their country even then.  These were a mix of Muslims and Christians.

[naomi24]

Untitled, //Hamas would not no. but gaza does not need to be conquered and occupied by israel in order to do away with hamas//

 

If, as you say, Hamas will not stop it seems Israel has no alternative but to pursue its current course.  It can't give Hamas the opportunity to triumph because that will mean the obliteration of Israel.  Surely even you can see that.

[Khandro]

This whole tragedy could end today, and could have ended weeks ago. The hostages (if any are still alive) could be returned and all the loss of life and destruction could stop.

All that has to happen is for Hamas, who are doomed anyway, to surrender !    As even Germany had to unconditionally in WWII

[Untitled]

israel does not accept surrender khandro... they even killed several of the hostages who were holding white flags because their policy is to shoot any such people they find

i would like to remind people that israel appears to have just opened fire on starving civilians trying to obtain flour... how can that possibly be right? why does this kind of incident seem to follow the IDF everywhere it goes?

[Untitled]

" As it seems you are all for the Palestinians can you tell me why it is that no neighbouring country wants any of them to live in them."

there are millions of palestinians in jordan and almost 200,000 in lebanon 

the palestinians are an occupied people theshedman... if they are successfully displaced to sinai or jordan say then they will continue to resist what has happened to them as any other people would. israel has invaded and occupied sinai twice... aside from its own poor economic situation i suspect egypt do not want the nightmare scenario of being invaded by israel again 

[theshedman]

Reports say the IDF fired over the heads of these people and not at them unless you have seen something to change that.  There has not been conclusive evidence yet as I have heard of. 

[naomi24]

//there are millions of palestinians in jordan and almost 200,000 in lebanon //

 

Yes, and after all these years they're still in camps. 

[Untitled]

Gromit's link from earlier 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68445973
 

Mahmoud Awadeyah said the Israeli vehicles had started firing at people when the aid arrived. 

"Israelis purposefully fired at the men... they were trying to get near the trucks that had the flour," he said. "They were fired at directly and prevented people to come near those killed."
 

the interviews with survivors broadcast by c4 news 

?si=KEMCMjgPnGftLLdX
 

 

 

[Untitled]

the "reports" you cite shedman are out of date from the IDF... who are now admitting that they did in fact shoot people but claim instead that they felt threatened by them (a very different story from the one they first came out with)

[Untitled]

question for naomi (and shedman and khandro)

you are currently saying you do not believe the IDF did this... if you did believe it would you still support them? does it actually matter to you whether or not the IDF fired on these people or do you back them regardless?

[naomi24]

Untitled, //you are currently saying you do not believe the IDF did this.//

 

Something else you've made up.  You seem to make a habit of that.  I'm saying I don't know and neither do you - in fact that is what I actually said.

 

Will you address my post at 9.15 please.

[Untitled]

Israel's "current course" is indefensible naomi... it involves repeated massacres of civilians which will only leave hamas stronger. the only way they can win on their terms is by liquidating the population of gaza entirely and that cannot be allowed to happen 

"Something else you've made up.  You seem to make a habit of that.  I'm saying I don't know and neither do you - in fact that is what I actually said."
 

my mistake apologies... but if you did believe israel had done this then would you still support them? do you support their right in principle to open fire on starving civilians?