Winter Fuel Payments Cut For Many Pensioners

[barry1010]

Labour is not messing about.  From this year only pensioners in reciept of Pension Credit or other means tested benefits will not the £100 - £300 annual payment to help with fuel bills.

Those just above the cut off for pension credit will really struggle

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c3g9yy73l77t#:~:text=The%20chancellor%20confirms%20she%20is,to%20make%2C%22%20she%20says.

I think this is very wrong.  Too many pensioners with no savings and just a pound or two over the limit are struggling. 

[Khandro]

barry; //Can't say I'm fussed about the Elgin marbles//

Can't say I'm particularly fussed about Winter Fuel Payments, but that doesn't mean I don't think that folk who really need the money shouldn't have it.

[THECORBYLOON]

On what bases would you determine those who really need the WFP?

[Clone]

Hypocrites the lot of them.

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1818160169622163456/pu/vid/avc1/720x720/rsnNf5qUq9A9qjun.mp4?tag=12

[naomi24]

^Oops.  Doubtless more will come back to bite them.

[Khandro]

Clone; Well spotted.

[ladybirder]

TCL if I lived in a draughty old house which I dont, I would probably need it.  I live in a modern underfloor heated flat which is lovely and warm.  If I was cold I would be cuddling a hot water bottle.

[THECORBYLOON]

It's being removed only from those not receiving Pension Credit (PC) and at the same time, they are encouraging those who would be entitled to PC but haven't yet applied for it, to do so as soon as possible.

[newmodarmy]

//about a quarter of pensioners are millionaires or richer. it makes no sense to be paying this out to people who do not need it//

I'd be interested to see a link to support that, untitled, but it's probably not far out for pensioner households if you are measuring wealth, including house value, rather than income. So sell their house?

 

[newmodarmy]

//It's about a fifth of households in Great Britain including someone aged sixty-five or over, that have combined incomes of a million pound or more.//

The corbeyloon, I think you mean wealth (including house) not income!

[Togo]

It hasn't taken long. The duplicitous left wing demonstating, at the first opportunity, that they are indeed spiteful and hate filled. Within the space of a few days they have ensured that the cost of fuel and power are bound to rise in leaps and bounds and simultaneously taken the little assistance available to 10s of millions elderly (some also suffering because of the lack of health care) to ensure that they can stay warm during the Winter months. This is not an oversight or clumsy timing but a deliberate programme of euthanasia to rid themselves of the costly and troublesome elderly. Wicked beyond all previously demonstrated peevish intent, and there has been plenty of that from the left wing sociapaths. 

[THECORBYLOON]

NMA, yes, I meant wealth.

[New Judge]

“it should go to those households who need it.”

And the State pension? Should that go only to those who need it as well? Because that’s the logical extension to your argument. The “millionaire” pensioners you refer to almost certainly don’t need it. Are you saying they shouldn’t have it?

On the topic of millionaire pensioners:

"about a quarter of pensioners are millionaires or richer."

And the source of that (clearly incorrect) information comes from...?

"It's about a fifth of households in Great Britain including someone aged sixty-five or over, that have combined incomes of a million pound or more."

Are you sure about that, Corby? There are about 25m households in the UK. That means, by your reckoning, that around 5m of those households have an income of £1m plus. But there are only an estimated 25,000 or so individuals who have an income of £1m plus.

Do you mean the households with assets of £1m or more (which would include their houses)? Even if you mean that, I would be surprised because from what I can gather, only about 5% of the UK population have assets of £1m or more, or about 10% of households. And of course not all of those households will include someone of pensionable age. So I think untitled’s view (“a quarter of pensioners are millionaires or richer) and yours (a fifth of households including someone aged 65 or over have combined incomes of £1m or more) need a little more refining. 

Untitled's statistic is clearly nonsense. But even in the unlikely event that yours was near enough correct, having a house worth a million pounds does not make them rich – unless of course you are suggesting they should sell their house to meet their living costs. 

[newmodarmy]

Good points newjudge. They are in fact the same points I tried to make, but your post is much more eloquent.

I think a fairer way of saving money on WFA would have been to tax all WFAs at each pensioner's marginal rate- so they'd have got 20% or 40% of the WFA back from the better off pensioners, and those just above the pension credit threshold would have still got all or most of their WFA.

[THECORBYLOON]

NJ, this was my source, https://fullfact.org/economy/millionaire-pensioners/

[newmodarmy]

Thanks thecorbyloon. So wealth includes not only savings, house and other assets but also the 'pension pot'.

Pension pot values sound high but don't always equate to a great income. Private pension pots of say £250000 for a household  are not uncommon but only lead to an annuity at 65 of around £8000 pa- so that's hardly going to make a pensioner couple comfortable.

A couple with a  house they can't sell and a pension pot that may have to last them 30 years might be close to be millionaires but can still stuggle to pay bills in winter.

[barry1010]

They will be after the £10 Christmas bonus next - Scrooge

[newmodarmy]

I don't mind if they do, barry. It's a hang over from around 50 years ago. It's never going to be increased and everyone's been too scared to scrap it.   It's just become a joke. Scrap it and maybe increase the basic pension by 20p a week- that way they'll at least claw some back through the tax system as so many pensioners are in PAYE now

[barry1010]

It's not just pensioners that get the £10 - there is a long list of qualifying benefits.  Those in receipt of carers allowance and incapacity benefit get it, for example

[davebro3]

The benefits system is a total mess & probably beyond the capacity of anyone to sort it out properly & without outcries from all and sundry.

[bednobs]

i wonder if the people decrying loss of WFA, are the same people who say that the 2 child benefit cap should remain.

I think everyone (including me) is guilty of a little self interest here - cutting a benefit is ok when it affects a group who is not you, but not ok if you are one of those affected