The Answer!

[mibn2cweus]

Are you unhappy and upset and believe that some important knowledge crucial to living a joyful life has been denied you? Find the missing piece of the puzzle you've been seeking all your life here

[Theland1]

Oh see you all later .............

[naomi24]

I'm not sure what this has to do with God, Theland, but I believe we have more than five senses. Although it isn't always dependable, I think instinct can be regarded as sixth sense. I also believe some people are able to detect aspects of what we, in my opinion, erroneously, term 'the supernatural', and that could be regarded as a seventh sense. (Starman, I just know you're gonna hate that bit - but, hey ho, that's what my experience of life has led me to conclude).

what if God exists in the parts of the universe that you don't understand?

What if he does? We have no indication of that, and therefore until we have some evidence to suggest that this may be the case, then there is no reason to believe that he does.

Or what if He exists in the bit that you understand as well, but you simply didn't recognise Him.

If he existed in the bit that we recognise, then once we'd spotted something unfamiliar, we would investigate. Since there cannot be anything within the sphere of our knowledge that we don't recognise, then currently we can only conclude that he isn't there.

Basically, Theland, what you're saying is we should be seeking something we have no evidence for, and therefore no rational reason to look for. Where's the sense in that?

[mibn2cweus]

Naomi, If what I am about to submit to you is just a rehash of a chapter in the same old story I beg your pardon but these remain my thoughts regarding these issues.

What I regard as 'instincts' is the programming we acquire through the developmental process as we first learn to think, choose and act through the guidance we are given as dependent children. While much of the programming you acquired might work wonderfully for you, my 'instincts' have almost without exception led me astray.

The self-destructive consequences of the path that I saw stretching out before me, and the lack of the most rudimentary knowledge of how to live is what prompted me to thoroughly assess, analyse, and reevaluate the foundations of my thought processes and to rewrite the programming with which I interface with reality.

To successfully achieve this monumental task required that I acquire a sufficient understanding of my own nature and that of the reality we live in and how I am to relate to and with the reality we are required to live in. With only a handful of broken tools to examine in the hope of redesigning tools that would actually work, while stumbling through the wreckage surrounding me I had to sort through the scattered ruins of my conscious mind and learn to differentiate between what I had been led to believe from whatever it might be that actually constitutes knowledge.

[mibn2cweus]

You are as always entitled, welcome and encouraged to scrutinise, evaluate and criticise my views. There is not a thought in my mind that is not fair game to such examination. To my knowledge I have already put them all through the ringer but in the event I might have missed something of significance I offer in advance a debt of gratitude if you would be so kind and so wise as to point it out.

It is not my intention to be demanding of your thoughts and consideration but they are welcome and appreciated. I sincerely hope that you will continue to find this exchange of ideas meaningful and worthwhile.

While our individual experiences can be quite different and in some cases unique I hasten to assert for your consideration the we share one and the same reality in which we can and would benefit mutually from sharing our knowledge where and when we find common ground to which we can from common experience relate. Disagreement is for the most part a matter of the failure to understand and communicate the nature of this common ground on which we both stand. From where I stand I see this as the whole point of and reason for engaging in the fine art of communication, the mutually beneficial goal of achieving a better understanding of and appreciation for our own existence and for trading the excesses of each others uniquely valuable individually obtained intellectual, spiritual and material wealth, not that I necessarily have a lot to bargain with . . .

[mibn2cweus]

I finally gathered up the courage to venture once more into China's fun science thread.

China, Hope you have a good reason for ignoring us?

. . . humm . . . let me think. What could it be . . . <"?

[naomi24]

You say your instincts have almost without exception led you astray, Starman, but let me ask you. At those times when you listened to your instincts and they were wrong, were you really heeding those instincts, or were you perhaps allowing yourself to be influenced by wishful thinking? I think our fundamental instincts can be adversely affected by other factors, for example, loneliness, or lack of self awareness or self confidence. Ask youself, who do you instinctively trust, and what leads you to trust those people? If you really think about it, have your instincts really served you poorly, or have they indeed been thrown off track by other factors? Perhaps we need to cultivate this sixth sense and learn to listen to it with the benefit of our past experiences - and with a little more wisdom. There is much we need to learn. I will confess that my instincts, especially where people are concerned, have failed me miserably - but that I now realise that is due to my own failure in allowing other influences to intrude upon my initial assessment - trusting fool that I am.

I really have no objection to you being demanding on my thoughts - in fact I welcome it. Although I'm not entirely sure I'll give the answers you expect, please feel free to ask away.

I hope that made sense to you.

Goodnight. everyone. Sweet dreams. x

[naomi24]

Just seen your return into China's Twilight Zone. At bedtime, that symmetrical (or not) person frazzles my brain, so I'll look again in the morning.

x

[mibn2cweus]

Trust, as the term is typically use is such a vague concept as to be rendered nearly meaningless, akin to faith's twin sibling. Trust must always be applied judiciously if it is to prove a beneficial undertaking.

I view trust as a calculated risk that should only be wagered following a careful cost benefit analysis for which you are prepared to deal with the worst possible outcome.
In situations where there is no longer time for such an analysis there is no choice but to trust and hope that the best within you is good enough. It is such circumstances I believe we are again at the mercy of the programming we acquired in childhood along with the updates and patches we have applied as we learned to think for ourselves. In this regard I trust myself fully, hope for the best and that I will be able to deal with the worst because while my self-programming is always subject to review at any leisure moment I know it is the best operating system I have been able to conceive.

[mibn2cweus]

As for trusting others, that depends on how far I can throw them. I believe most of us are motivated by the best of intentions but I question how much of their operating system they have examinded, not that I automatically assume that they're even aware that they have one and that they realise that it is what, in the absense of a rational process, determines their choices and actions.

I consider it common courtesy not to trust others beyond the worthiness they have already demonstrated and affirmed. Trust is not something that is earned on command nor should it be expected to be given blindly. Trust that has been properly administered will rise to its proper place as a useful tool for facilitating rewarding interpersonal relationships. Nevertheless it is the purveyor that is responsibile for the consequences of its dispensation.

On that note, there are some others whose trust investment in me deserves some interest payments.

[Theland1]

Thanks for the posts.
Well Mibs, at least we have some agreement, in musical tastes that is. Yes?
I tend to agree with Naomis' views on instinct, and an element of the mysterious, that most people take as an unexplained aspect of reality.Regarding common sense and logic, we only have to delve into the realms of maths and quantum mechanics to see both break down completely, yet the ensuing chaos remains a part of the witnessed observable reality.

[Theland1]

What about your musical tastes Nims? Do you like Yes?
What else?

[Theland1]

....... apart from Lunas' renditions of course!

[Theland1]

To what extent did your parents influence your views on religion, reality, the mysterious or the secular atheism etc?

I had a mother who insisted I went to church, and did so up to the age of 12, but I totally rejected it all as hogwash.

My father didn't interfere, but when pinned down on the subject, refused to believe in God, due in part to the horrors he had witnessed during WW2, as a P.O.W. on the Burma railway.

In his latter years, long after I had become a Christian, he did tell me that he did believe, but what brought about the change I do not know.

So, what's your stories?

[naomi24]

Starman, I agree that trust is a calculated risk, but how do you, personally, apply it judiciously? What's the criteria? I wrote a lot more in response to your thoughts, but it became rather a confession of the soul, and not the sort of thing I'd want to post openly here, so I deleted it. I admire your confidence in your ability to trust yourself fully.

Theland, musical tastes. Well, you know I like Puccini and a lot of classical stuff, but I love dancing and can bop away with the best of them to the Rolling Stones - I still find their music incredibly exciting. The only stuff I really don't like is screechy jazz - think Johnny Dankworth and Cleo Laine - and I absolutely hate rap, or repetitive electronic head-banging monotonous tones, or anything that doesn't flow. It upsets my equilibrium - and it really does. When I hear it, I can feel my insides becoming mangled. At the moment I think Amy Winehouse is brilliant - and I absolutely love James Morrison's music

I went to church when I was little - but then I grew up.

[Theland1]

Yes Nims. I share your distaste for bang bang music, and anything else that is just a noise.
Stones? Yes, me too, and I love baroque music. I couldn't discuss music in any depth, as much as I'd like to, as I just don't have the knowledge. Wish I did.

[Theland1]

I've put a few posts on here and there, and they're gone!