Are You Saved?

[fiveleaves]

And if so, How do you know?

[Khandro]

Atheist; //It seems to me that most religions do the opposite, i.e. they collect money. (I don't think that Quakers do.) Certainly the christian (sic) ones all emm to do it//

When were you last personally asked to give money to a Christian church of any denomination, except perhaps The Salvation Army,

likewise the 'churches' of Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Zoroastrians, Shinto's, Confucians & whatever.

In fact the only people panhandling for dosh in the typical British High street are all doing it for secular causes; so you can dig deep into your pocket & feel completely untainted.

[naomi24]

//In fact the only people panhandling for dosh in the typical British High street are all doing it for secular causes//

The 'causes' aren't secular. They're humanitarian. Help is given regardless of colour, creed, or culture. Why the disdain for that, Khandro?

[Khandro]

No 'disdain' at all, I'm simply challenging Atheist's assertion that most religions collect money, & his singling out of the Christian church.

Christian Aid & Cafod etc. are run by Christian people, but any monies received are not for the church.

[naomi24]

Most religions do collect money. The charities are run separately - and they collect money too, just like any other charity.

[Atheist]

Khandro; Where did the RC church obtain its wealth? And the C of E? And the televangelists? Why are these religions exempt from tax? I don't know much about the other religions you mentioned.

[steg]

I’ve been christened twice, I should be bullet proof

[Khandro]

Atheist; // I don't know much about the other religions you mentioned.//

With respect, you don't seem to know much about ANY religions.

The C.of E.. wealth !!! They are struggling to survive & can't find the money to fix the leaky roofs, of which there are many & churches are having to close after hundreds of years.

Don't think that because the Vatican is custodian to priceless works of art they are floating in dosh, they can't sell them, can they & I had dealings with a large Catholic church in Alsace, France throughout last summer, & I can assure you, they were far from being "wealthy".

[Atheist]

Khandro; an excerpt from a Guardian article (more than 2 years old).

[Atheist]

oops!
"It comes amid dwindling congregation numbers and raises questions over whether the C of E should be doing more to help impoverished vicars given that it has an investment fund worth £8.3bn and is paying asset management executives six-figure sums, including one who earned more than £530,000 last year. The archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby – who has two grace-and-favour homes including Lambeth Palace – is paid £83,400 and last year attacked Amazon for not paying a living wage and railed against poverty."

[naomi24]

Khandro, individual churches struggle, but the Church of England is one of the biggest landowners in the country with a portfolio worth in excess of £2 billion.

The wealth of the Roman Catholic church is said to be impossible to calculate but the Vatican alone is worth between $10 and $15 billion. 'The Church' is far from poor.

Steg, didn't it work the first time? ;o)

[steg]

I think they maybe had an idea what was to come so double dunnted me.
I was about 4yo second time round.
Never really liked church when a bairn, but was fascinated by the ladies hats

[naomi24]

:o)

[Khandro]

Atheist: Very much a Guardian article, the Archbishop's salary is just the same as an MP's BASIC. The £530,000 I would have to look into but it doesn't say it's a salary, & I won't bother & it's probably untrue.

naomi; You don't seem to grasp that it is possible to property/land rich & not have any money, (I've been there!) And what do you suggest the Vatican does, sell the Laocoön ?

You & Atheist remind me of the Bisto kids

[naomi24]

Khandro, Try to control the urge to sling insults for once. I have raised thousands and thousands of pounds for churches and I know very well indeed how churches work - and frankly it wouldn't do the big boys any harm to flog off some of their assets - would it? They certainly put the screws on the little bloke to maintain his own upkeep! All so very Christian, Khandro, but who's counting? The accountants, that's who.

[Khandro]

OK, let them sell all their land & valuables & with it buy every poor person in the world a Big Mac. What then?

[naomi24]

Khandro, I’ll ignore your silliness and ask you a question. Assets aside, have you ever considered the amount of interest the church earns on its investments? Stop pleading poverty on its behalf. The church is not poor. If individual churches are suffering it’s because the faithful are left to raise the necessary funds to maintain them.

[Khandro]

//Khandro, I’ll ignore your silliness//

Just done some sums;

There are estimated to be 28,000 million people in the world living in 'extreme poverty' - less than $1.8 per day - & a Big Mac costs $4

Giving them all one each would then cost 28,000 million. Man, that's a lot of ketchup!

[naomi24]

A drop in the ocean out of the billions the church has - but I don’t suppose you did that calculation.

[nailit]

Going back to the original question....
Are you saved and how would you know?

Im definetly saved from the Muslim hell.
And the Catholic one as well.
As well as all the Buddhist and Hindu ones.
Because I dont believe in them.
What about you five leaves?
What is the Baptist hell like?
Is it anymore Torture than the C of E for example?
Just trying to find ways of loving God more so that he won't
hurt me for having the wrong belief??

[nailit]

Personally, I think that people that advocate eternal torture to
those that think differently to themselves are bordering on the psychopathic.