If This Not A Full U-Turn...

[Khandro]

... is it at least a 90° one?   😃

 

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2024/04/01/athiest-richard-dawkins-says-he-would-choose-christianity-over-islam-every-single-time/

[Ellipsis]

Naomi, I'm an atheist, you're an atheist and Dawkins is an atheist, but we're all different, which means that some of us atheists may be cultural Christians, like you, and others may not be. I would have put Dawkins in the second camp, given his vociferous criticism of religion - he's more of a radical atheist. For example, if you look at what he says about faith schools being indoctrination and a form of mental abuse, he clearly doesn't appreciate that element of Christian culture.

[Khandro]

Atheist, I don't sing Daddy Wouldn't Buy me a Bow-wow not for fear of being accused of being a hypocrite, but because it's stupid which, O, Come all ye Faithful isn't.

[Untitled]

"

Why is it a problem for you that others think similarly then?.

 

To 'need' more?  Why? "
 

because there is more to culture than "appreciating" something 

a "cultural christian" atheist has nothing "culturally" going on except tradition for the sake of tradition: i like christmas carols, i like churches, so i want to keep them. but culture is a lot more than just tradition alone it is also an expression of values and all christian values are rooted in belief in jesus as a divine being. without that you have nothing but the surface level appearance of a culture, what is underneath is dead and stagnant. there is no way to create anything new or do anything at all other than pass on traditions for the sake of passing them on.
 

it makes no sense at all to call yourself a cultural christian if you aren't a christian! 

[naomi24]

I agree with him, ellipsis.  I too am highly critical of religion and in particular of the concept of sin and the notion that unless human beings become sycophantic and subservient they are doomed to hell - Roman Catholic schools being the worst offenders as far as Christianity goes.   Also of other educational establishments that deny science in favour of fantasy.  Dawkins once interviewed a science teacher who, in line with Islamic literature, taught that the mountains were created to pin down the earth - and her teenage students believed it. All of that is child abuse.

We have friends who are highly religious - Baptists.  Their son is gay and their daughter divorced.  They are distraught, convinced that because their children have offended God, they are doomed for eternity.  That, frankly, is wicked - and that is what Richard Dawkins and I object to.  If you want to see true evil, look no further than religion.

[Khandro]

I'm pleased to say that not only has my thread re-vitalised R&S, or 'dusted it off' as naomi puts it, but it seems to have also brough Ellipsis and me into agreement, a rare thing indeed & surely worthy of celebration. 🙂

[naomi24]

Thank the Lord!  😂

[Ellipsis]

😂

[Ellipsis]

So if you think of three atheists: Rod supports the  children of Catholic parents going to Catholic schools; Jane doesn't have an opinion, she thinks it has nothing to do with her either way; and Freddy thinks there should be no faith schools, including Catholic schools. I would say that not all of Rod, Jane and Freddy can possibly be cultural Christians.

[ToraToraTora]

..but what about Zippy, George and Bungle?

[Ellipsis]

Oh, Geoffrey ...

[fiveleaves]

Dawkins appears to have changed a lot in the years since "The God Delusion" Being a "cultural Christian" is meaningless as far as God is concerned.He needs to be born again like everyone else

[naomi24]

He doesn't, fiveleaves.  Really, he doesn't.  

[andy-hughes]

Nor does anyone else.

[jno]

Being a "cultural Christian" is meaningless as far as God is concerned.

I'm sure he's well aware of that, and he hasn't claimed otherwise, that's why he's talking about a Christian culture rather than the Christian religion.

[jourdain2]

No, he doesn't.  I'll agree with naomi on this.  He is being honest with himself, considering everything he understands. 

Perhaps I have a more fluid understanding of Christianity  than most, I don't know.  But if someone is genuinely considering such things and decides that being a good person (in accordance with Christian mores) is enough - then I have no problem with that.  And nor, I suspect, has Jesus.

Hope no-one tells my vicar!  Actually, it wouldn't matter, he works on people and how they work in the world, the goodness they do and the evil they reject.  Hope this makes sense, never tried to vocalise (type it) before.

[Khandro]

jourdain; I hear what you say, but the OP asks has he, who has ridiculed & despised religion(s) & become very rich by it, now had a genuine change of heart, or has he been all along insincere in his assertions?

  

[Peter Pedant]

Perhaps I have a more fluid understanding of Christianity  than most, I don't know.

no ( or yes) the Church of England is famously latitudinarian 

is this the thread that (had) the comments about the atheist bishop of durham? - shows how latitudinarian the church is

[Atheist]

Khandro; Why your worry about the fact that Dawkins may have written books that made him money? Do you paint for money? Does your income make you insincere or phoney?

[jourdain2]

Sorry,Khandro, I got carried away answering the immediate points.

I don't think Dawkins has become a Christian.  I do think that he has matured from his previous scornful attitudes into an understanding of the value of Christianity to the  world. 

So, a partial change at least into understanding the value of that which he previously scorned.  Not total, obviously.

I hope my younger daughter (on his web page) eases off on me as well.  

Nothing very erudite, just feelings - and nice to lose an  enemy and gain a partial supporter.   

[jno]

now had a genuine change of heart, or has he been all along insincere in his assertions?

1: no.

2: no.

I'm with naomi, I really can't see what the problem is here.