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Was Jesus a spaceman?
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Was Jesus an extra-terrestrial?
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The thing is Chakka, if we simply had legends of 'gods', we could possibly say they came from man's imagination, but it's all the tales from across the globe that go with the gods that make me want to dig further. What weapons were used to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, or the walls of Jericho? Why did God's arrival cause mountains to thunder and smoke? Ezekiel describes God arriving in a machine that hurtled out of the north (wonder why an omnipresent God would hurtle from any particular direction?), but nevertheless Ezekiel says '....a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it .....' and, apparently it made the sound 'like the noise of great waters.' J F Blumrich, a NASA scientist and designer of the Saturn V rocket, investigated Ezekiel with the intention of discrediting any thoughts of flying machines, but came to the conclusion that what Ezekiel described was indeed a flying machine. Several people have been carried by a 'whirlwind' into heaven, and Enoch described what he experienced as 'hot as fire and cold as ice'. Sounds suspiciously like space to me. There are also descriptions of the earth as it appears from above - the oceans look like water troughs and the land looks like porridge, or words to that effect. There are the Vimanas of India, and the Mahabharata describes "sky chariots with many windows, ejecting red flame, that race up into the sky until they look like comets . . . to the regions of both the sun and the stars."
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The bible also tells of the 'sons of God' mating with the daughters of men, and producing giants, and I have to wonder who these 'sons of God' were.
I can't just dismiss this as ancient imagination - and of course the Piri Reis maps could never be considered ancient imagination. They're only too real. There's so much to learn, and in fact it disappoints me a little that atheists don't seriously investigate the subject more. You describe it as 'superstition', but I would beg to differ. Superstitious is one thing I'm not.
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I attach this for you, just for the pictures http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_7.htm
And this is from c10,000bc. Some imagination!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ancientastr onauts.jpg
No, Chakka, Occam's Razor won't do for me where this subject is concerned. I wouldn't simply view its application as intellectual laziness - I'd see it as a complete intellectual cop out. Just not good enough.
Incidentally, you said, 'There are far more interesting and difficult problems to apply your brain to than this superstition.' Intriguing that. What would you suggest would suit me more? (And if you dare say 'the washing up', duck!!).
The bible also tells of the 'sons of God' mating with the daughters of men, and producing giants, and I have to wonder who these 'sons of God' were.
I can't just dismiss this as ancient imagination - and of course the Piri Reis maps could never be considered ancient imagination. They're only too real. There's so much to learn, and in fact it disappoints me a little that atheists don't seriously investigate the subject more. You describe it as 'superstition', but I would beg to differ. Superstitious is one thing I'm not.
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I attach this for you, just for the pictures http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_7.htm
And this is from c10,000bc. Some imagination!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ancientastr onauts.jpg
No, Chakka, Occam's Razor won't do for me where this subject is concerned. I wouldn't simply view its application as intellectual laziness - I'd see it as a complete intellectual cop out. Just not good enough.
Incidentally, you said, 'There are far more interesting and difficult problems to apply your brain to than this superstition.' Intriguing that. What would you suggest would suit me more? (And if you dare say 'the washing up', duck!!).
Catron � Don�t worry mate. I know what sort of mentality Wizard has, Even he has put a thread as well that why Religionists talk about sexuality. And he is claiming that I have problem with sexuality. In reality he himself has accepted on one of the threads that No girl friend stays with him. Although I knew he was abusive, but still I gave him a tip how to make women happy and keep her happy.
Catron � One more thing. Do not say any thing against Wizard because Naomi does not like that. We all know he uses bad language when he gets stuck somewhere but still in Naomi�s eyes He is one of those who have dignity, honour, honesty, and integrity. Only because he has the same beliefs.
Catron � One more thing. Do not say any thing against Wizard because Naomi does not like that. We all know he uses bad language when he gets stuck somewhere but still in Naomi�s eyes He is one of those who have dignity, honour, honesty, and integrity. Only because he has the same beliefs.
Keyplus Your advice to Wizard on how to keep a woman ...... Get Circumcised and women will never leave you once they be with you.
Hope you're taking notes, chaps.
What absolute nonsense.
And yet again you're wrong, Keyplus. Wizard and I don't share the same beliefs, but I respect him because he's honest. It's as simple as that.
Hope you're taking notes, chaps.
What absolute nonsense.
And yet again you're wrong, Keyplus. Wizard and I don't share the same beliefs, but I respect him because he's honest. It's as simple as that.
Keyplus - you have not been *cough* contributing to these boards for terribly long. Many of the people contributing to your threads have already had similar discussions amongst themselves on these pages.
We have seldom had to deal with someone of your bull-headed and woefully biased intransigence.
I think we have all gleaned that you consider yourself to be a devout and scholarly muslim........but you have consumately failed to show us that you have made any sort of attempt to study texts that may have a contrary or completely new opinion.
I saw your advice to Wizard and found it to be utterly fatuous.
Wizard may not be the most eloquent chap, but he knows what he wants to say and would rather say it now than resorting to self-edit which can be a great inhibitor.
Wizard and noami DO share the values of common decency and they bent over backwards to accommodate your arrival on here. it was only after you had demonstrated your total lack of regard to what was being said and who by that they gave vent to their frustrations.
Your last snide comment 'only because he has the same beliefs'..........shows us far more of your character than you may have imagined.
We have seldom had to deal with someone of your bull-headed and woefully biased intransigence.
I think we have all gleaned that you consider yourself to be a devout and scholarly muslim........but you have consumately failed to show us that you have made any sort of attempt to study texts that may have a contrary or completely new opinion.
I saw your advice to Wizard and found it to be utterly fatuous.
Wizard may not be the most eloquent chap, but he knows what he wants to say and would rather say it now than resorting to self-edit which can be a great inhibitor.
Wizard and noami DO share the values of common decency and they bent over backwards to accommodate your arrival on here. it was only after you had demonstrated your total lack of regard to what was being said and who by that they gave vent to their frustrations.
Your last snide comment 'only because he has the same beliefs'..........shows us far more of your character than you may have imagined.
No. But you have to be able to debate. To show that your information comes from a variety of primary sources; independent ones that would stand up to scrutiny- not just from a group of academics all of whom take the same point as their start, i.e. the infallibility of the Koran.
You make disparaging, throw-away comments about evolution and monkeys without the slightest shred of evidence that you have read or considered, with an open mind, what these books have to say.
If you wish to make statements about the veracity of the Koran and all it contains you will be challenged to back up those claims. You may consider it to be enough to mention eminent Koranic scholars but I'm afraid that it simply is not good enough here.
You make disparaging, throw-away comments about evolution and monkeys without the slightest shred of evidence that you have read or considered, with an open mind, what these books have to say.
If you wish to make statements about the veracity of the Koran and all it contains you will be challenged to back up those claims. You may consider it to be enough to mention eminent Koranic scholars but I'm afraid that it simply is not good enough here.
Jack � I do understand what you are saying, But I believe not only that Quran is true but also that Quran gives you the answer to the questions of every aspect of your life. I am not asking people to agree with it. But Quran talks about, Science, sociology, financial matters, family matters, about life about death, you name it. Quran even tells you about after life. Do you know about any book which tells you about that. We can not prove that as we are not there yet. And people do not have to agree with me if they do not want to. You talk about evolution and Quran tells you about that as well.
So if I give examples from there, then what is wrong with it. Again if you do not want to agree with it, you do not have to.
So if I give examples from there, then what is wrong with it. Again if you do not want to agree with it, you do not have to.
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Is this same Eric Von Deniken who adimitted that his book Chariots of God was Fraudulent and he did add a lot of cooked stuff in that book?
Enough of Von Daniken's claims have, however, been examined to reveal his method of operations: to dazzle the reader with a skillful blend of half-truths (as well as quarter and eighth- truths, too). Looking into his past, (Ref: New York Times Book Review), we should not be too surprised to find that his rather broad criterion of truthfulness has, at times, brought him into conflict with the law. A court in his native Switzerland found Von Daniken guilty of embezzlement, forgery, and fraud, sentencing him to three and a half years in prison. While operating a Swiss hotel. it seems he fraudulently obtained money by misrepresenting his financial assets, this experience in deception later proving invaluable in his literary career. It was during this stay as a guest of the Swiss government that he wrote his second book, Gods from Outer Space, now also a best seller.
Enough of Von Daniken's claims have, however, been examined to reveal his method of operations: to dazzle the reader with a skillful blend of half-truths (as well as quarter and eighth- truths, too). Looking into his past, (Ref: New York Times Book Review), we should not be too surprised to find that his rather broad criterion of truthfulness has, at times, brought him into conflict with the law. A court in his native Switzerland found Von Daniken guilty of embezzlement, forgery, and fraud, sentencing him to three and a half years in prison. While operating a Swiss hotel. it seems he fraudulently obtained money by misrepresenting his financial assets, this experience in deception later proving invaluable in his literary career. It was during this stay as a guest of the Swiss government that he wrote his second book, Gods from Outer Space, now also a best seller.
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Keyplus - because you see the Koran as a manual for living and thinking it absolves you from the need to think for yourself.........
"hhhmmm, what opinion should I hold about XXXXXX ? I know, I'll look in the book and see what it says...........OK........I now have my answer and know what to think !"
That doesn't work for the rest of us.
As no-one is able to come back from the dead to confirm or correct what any religious text tells us about the hereafter, we are, rightly, sceptical about any pronouncements on that.
You have complete reliance on one book for all of your life........we prefer to interact with our fellow man in a different way and along a different path.
"hhhmmm, what opinion should I hold about XXXXXX ? I know, I'll look in the book and see what it says...........OK........I now have my answer and know what to think !"
That doesn't work for the rest of us.
As no-one is able to come back from the dead to confirm or correct what any religious text tells us about the hereafter, we are, rightly, sceptical about any pronouncements on that.
You have complete reliance on one book for all of your life........we prefer to interact with our fellow man in a different way and along a different path.
Keyplus We've had this discussion before. You haven't read any of his books, and until you have, your opinion is absolutely worthless. You don't know what you're talking about. All you've done is whipped yet another bit off the internet in the hope that we'll think it comes from you. Well, we know it doesn't. Yet again, it's someone else's opinion that you're passing off as your own. What a deceitful little man you are.
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Naomi � You are absolutely wrong in imagining that I am a deceitful man. I do give my opinions and I do take others opinions from the net as well. If you have time to spare (I think you have plenty of that) then go back and read whatever and whenever I said something. Majority of the time I admitted that it is from other people. Are you giving 100% of your own opinion. I doubt it. Few people read and say in their own words, and I mention with original people�s name. What is wrong in doing that. If I admit that others have more profound knowledge then why shouldn�t I admit it. The only difference is that our opinions are different. And that is what seems to be very difficult for you to digest. Nothing else whatsoever. You believe in the knowledge of Von Deniken and I believe in someone else�s. What is wrong with that. And why I have to read about someone where on the preface it is written that his approach has been proved fraudulent.
Legend 758 � Your question about the integrity of the writers of Bible and Quran.
I am not sure about Bible. But with due Respect to all people who believe in Bible available now, I do not think that to be right. I am sure I am not the only one. Then there are so many different books, written by so many different people. All of them long after Jesus (pbuh). So about the writer you asked, and I would say which writer, as there are so many.
As far as Quran is concerned. I have no doubt in that. That has nothing to do with my Faith but logic.
1 - Because Quran is still same from word to word. There are still two copies of the original Quran in the museum in Istanbul (Turkey) and one I think in Tashkent.
2 - Then Quran is known to millions of people by heart from cover to cover with all the punctuation.
3 � This one you will definitely not agree with that Allah says in Quran that He himself will guard the truthfulness and integrity of the Quranic revelations till the end of the world.
These are my views.
I am not sure about Bible. But with due Respect to all people who believe in Bible available now, I do not think that to be right. I am sure I am not the only one. Then there are so many different books, written by so many different people. All of them long after Jesus (pbuh). So about the writer you asked, and I would say which writer, as there are so many.
As far as Quran is concerned. I have no doubt in that. That has nothing to do with my Faith but logic.
1 - Because Quran is still same from word to word. There are still two copies of the original Quran in the museum in Istanbul (Turkey) and one I think in Tashkent.
2 - Then Quran is known to millions of people by heart from cover to cover with all the punctuation.
3 � This one you will definitely not agree with that Allah says in Quran that He himself will guard the truthfulness and integrity of the Quranic revelations till the end of the world.
These are my views.
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