When You Wake Up In The Morning
ChatterBank3 mins ago
End Of Grid Girls......
....In Formula 1
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"While the practice of employing grid girls has been a staple of Formula 1 grands prix for decades, we feel this custom does not resonate with our brand values and clearly is at odds with modern day societal norms," Bratches added.
Do you agree or not , with the move ?
Should the ban be extended to other Motor Sports formulas ?
http://
"While the practice of employing grid girls has been a staple of Formula 1 grands prix for decades, we feel this custom does not resonate with our brand values and clearly is at odds with modern day societal norms," Bratches added.
Do you agree or not , with the move ?
Should the ban be extended to other Motor Sports formulas ?
Answers
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Andy Hughes
"As has been pointed out, virtually none of these women rely on this particular work as their main source of income, so they are not being cast aside as unemployable."
OK, fine - let's ignore the money bit as a red herring. What we cannot ignore is that these girls enjoyed what they were doing, and that enjoyment and choice has been taken away from them, and people do not care about about that. Those that don't care have taken a rather sniffy superior stance as if the thoughts of the girls concerned are of no relevance just so long as what some people find unacceptable is stopped.
But more importantly, someone being paid to do something that is no longer seen as socially acceptable by society is not a justification for it to continue.
Society doesn't find it socially unacceptable. Only a small part of society may find it socially unacceptable - the vast majority probably couldn't care less.
By that logic, you could say that sending a small boy up a chimney is acceptable, as long you as you pay him the going rate for doing it.
I appreciate you are exaggerating to make a point - a wrong point, but a point nonetheless.
Andy - I think you, and anybody who is pleased grid girls will no longer appear, are fundamentally wrong. I think it is sacrificing their choice and their enjoyment on the alter of PC (hate that phrase, but it seems appropriate). You think I am fundamentally wrong.
Never the twain shall meet!
"As has been pointed out, virtually none of these women rely on this particular work as their main source of income, so they are not being cast aside as unemployable."
OK, fine - let's ignore the money bit as a red herring. What we cannot ignore is that these girls enjoyed what they were doing, and that enjoyment and choice has been taken away from them, and people do not care about about that. Those that don't care have taken a rather sniffy superior stance as if the thoughts of the girls concerned are of no relevance just so long as what some people find unacceptable is stopped.
But more importantly, someone being paid to do something that is no longer seen as socially acceptable by society is not a justification for it to continue.
Society doesn't find it socially unacceptable. Only a small part of society may find it socially unacceptable - the vast majority probably couldn't care less.
By that logic, you could say that sending a small boy up a chimney is acceptable, as long you as you pay him the going rate for doing it.
I appreciate you are exaggerating to make a point - a wrong point, but a point nonetheless.
Andy - I think you, and anybody who is pleased grid girls will no longer appear, are fundamentally wrong. I think it is sacrificing their choice and their enjoyment on the alter of PC (hate that phrase, but it seems appropriate). You think I am fundamentally wrong.
Never the twain shall meet!
The following two paragraphs should have been in inverted commas - they were C&P'd from Andy Hughes's post.
"But more importantly, someone being paid to do something that is no longer seen as socially acceptable by society is not a justification for it to continue. "
"By that logic, you could say that sending a small boy up a chimney is acceptable, as long you as you pay him the going rate for doing it."
"But more importantly, someone being paid to do something that is no longer seen as socially acceptable by society is not a justification for it to continue. "
"By that logic, you could say that sending a small boy up a chimney is acceptable, as long you as you pay him the going rate for doing it."
Not saying I agree with the banning or not but why is it only the girls peole are talking about. Watched a few minutes of 8 out of 10 cats does countdown yesterday and the 2 male models were wearing a lot less than the girls do. So why no complaints about this too or is it fine for men to do it. Just a thought
the shedman - // Not saying I agree with the banning or not but why is it only the girls peole are talking about. Watched a few minutes of 8 out of 10 cats does countdown yesterday and the 2 male models were wearing a lot less than the girls do. So why no complaints about this too or is it fine for men to do it. Just a thought //
The use of the male models is irony for comedic effect - the clue is the cheesy wave they always offer when the come on, a direct reference to the way 'hostesses' in seventies quiz shows used to do.
The use of the male models is irony for comedic effect - the clue is the cheesy wave they always offer when the come on, a direct reference to the way 'hostesses' in seventies quiz shows used to do.
Deskdiary - // Society doesn't find it socially unacceptable. Only a small part of society may find it socially unacceptable - the vast majority probably couldn't care less. //
I disagree. I think we need to see this in the wider context of an ongoing change in the attitudes towards women in 2018.
Women are not seen as 'totty' anymore, even the BBC is having to accept that its 'gels' are not secretaries who have got above themselves, but professionals who deserve a comparable rate for a comparable task.
So I think that - and I agree - leaving aside the money, and also let's leave aside the 'enjoyment' because that is not an adequate justification either, it is about the unpleasant attitudes towards women being eroded by an evolving society.
That is happening in all ways, small, like this one, larger, the BBC pay row, and so on and so on.
I don't think this is an issue that deserves a huge amount of thought and agonising, I think it is an indication of an ongoing change in society, and I think that is a good thing.
Which ever way you slice it, paid for, enjoyed, and so on, the entire raison d'etre of a 'grid girl' is to be gawped at by men as a sexual fantasy object, and I don't think that is something that belongs in the world in 2018.
I disagree. I think we need to see this in the wider context of an ongoing change in the attitudes towards women in 2018.
Women are not seen as 'totty' anymore, even the BBC is having to accept that its 'gels' are not secretaries who have got above themselves, but professionals who deserve a comparable rate for a comparable task.
So I think that - and I agree - leaving aside the money, and also let's leave aside the 'enjoyment' because that is not an adequate justification either, it is about the unpleasant attitudes towards women being eroded by an evolving society.
That is happening in all ways, small, like this one, larger, the BBC pay row, and so on and so on.
I don't think this is an issue that deserves a huge amount of thought and agonising, I think it is an indication of an ongoing change in society, and I think that is a good thing.
Which ever way you slice it, paid for, enjoyed, and so on, the entire raison d'etre of a 'grid girl' is to be gawped at by men as a sexual fantasy object, and I don't think that is something that belongs in the world in 2018.
Deskdiary, when I started practicing Occupational Therapy, there was a lot of craft and manual activities like woodwork involved and I really enjoyed that part. My employers, the NHS, decided that that part of the job was no longer right for the times and so they stopped employing people to do it. Are you saying that employers should be made to employ people to do what the employees want to do because they enjoy doing it?
woofgang - // Are you saying that employers should be made to employ people to do what the employees want to do because they enjoy doing it? //
I don't think anyone who has thought this through could argue that 'enjoyment' is the only valid reason for anyone to be allowed to do anything.
It can be used as part of the evidence to keep something that is in the process of being eradicated, but it's not a reason that will stand alone.
I don't think anyone who has thought this through could argue that 'enjoyment' is the only valid reason for anyone to be allowed to do anything.
It can be used as part of the evidence to keep something that is in the process of being eradicated, but it's not a reason that will stand alone.
Deskdiary - // Woofgang is skating dangerously close to falling foul of your 'So' rule. //
I don't see how he is?
To contravene the 'So' Rule, you have to start your post with 'So ... and then ramble on, accusing the previous poster of saying something they didn't actually say at all, and then get angry with them for it!
Woof doesn't tick any of those boxes.
I don't see how he is?
To contravene the 'So' Rule, you have to start your post with 'So ... and then ramble on, accusing the previous poster of saying something they didn't actually say at all, and then get angry with them for it!
Woof doesn't tick any of those boxes.
woofgang - // Andy, this is what I what I was referring to from deskdiary
"OK, fine - let's ignore the money bit as a red herring. What we cannot ignore is that these girls enjoyed what they were doing, and that enjoyment and choice has been taken away from them, and people do not care about about that." //
Well I care for one.
I don't like women being demeaned by men in this way, and I do applaud the beginning of the end for this system of behaviour.
But that does not mean that I take any pleasure in denying either a woman a right to make money and / or enjoy herself doing do.
However, when changes do occur - as they must - then there is fall-out in a number of areas, which is inevitable and unavoidable.
Remember the fox hunting ban? Whole swathes of people who supplied dogs and horses to hunts had their entire livelihoods demolished at a stroke, and they were not spending a few hours on a weekend walking up and down holding a board in the air and being leered at by sad men.
I regretted that too - but I would not advocate that fox-hunting remained in order for them to continue working in that sector of employment.
"OK, fine - let's ignore the money bit as a red herring. What we cannot ignore is that these girls enjoyed what they were doing, and that enjoyment and choice has been taken away from them, and people do not care about about that." //
Well I care for one.
I don't like women being demeaned by men in this way, and I do applaud the beginning of the end for this system of behaviour.
But that does not mean that I take any pleasure in denying either a woman a right to make money and / or enjoy herself doing do.
However, when changes do occur - as they must - then there is fall-out in a number of areas, which is inevitable and unavoidable.
Remember the fox hunting ban? Whole swathes of people who supplied dogs and horses to hunts had their entire livelihoods demolished at a stroke, and they were not spending a few hours on a weekend walking up and down holding a board in the air and being leered at by sad men.
I regretted that too - but I would not advocate that fox-hunting remained in order for them to continue working in that sector of employment.
The 'so' rule has been co-opted to mean what's up above from it's origins whereby people who should know better, usually being interviewed about their job begin every second sentence with 'so' as a teenager uses 'like'.
It's annoying once noticed, pretentious and pointless, rather like politicians used to start a reply with 'look' to appear tough when responding to an upstart journalist putting them on the spot about summat.
Still we are where we are now on Andybank and things shall remain, errr, so.
It's annoying once noticed, pretentious and pointless, rather like politicians used to start a reply with 'look' to appear tough when responding to an upstart journalist putting them on the spot about summat.
Still we are where we are now on Andybank and things shall remain, errr, so.
Can I start a 'Sigh Rule'?
"I don't like women being demeaned by men in this way..."
Sigh.
The women did not feel demeaned. You have felt the demeaning on behalf of people who did not feel demeaned (like falling into the trap of being offended on behalf of people who are not offended).
In other words, because you feel it is demeaning, then so should they.
"I don't like women being demeaned by men in this way..."
Sigh.
The women did not feel demeaned. You have felt the demeaning on behalf of people who did not feel demeaned (like falling into the trap of being offended on behalf of people who are not offended).
In other words, because you feel it is demeaning, then so should they.
Deskdiary - // The women did not feel demeaned. You have felt the demeaning on behalf of people who did not feel demeaned (like falling into the trap of being offended on behalf of people who are not offended).
In other words, because you feel it is demeaning, then so should they. //
Or in other 'other words', because you feel they were not demeaned, they didn't feel it!
We don't know - do we.
As I see it, the purpose of a 'Grid Girl' s to be gawped at by men in a sexual manner.
Now you can argue all the periphery that there is, and I think we have on this thread - the women enjoy it, are paid, don't mind, it's a bit of fun, don't stop them working if they want to .... and so on and so on.
But what it comes down to is a basic circumstance -
Grid Girls are there to be gawped at by men, I think we would all agree on that.
As a society, some people believe, and I am one of them - that this attitude towards women is outdated and inappropriate in a culture which is trying to moved away from seeing attractive women as sex objects to be leered at.
I am really not trying to offended on anyone's behalf - I am simply offering my view, and the reasons for it.
It's been interesting.
See you tomorrow.
In other words, because you feel it is demeaning, then so should they. //
Or in other 'other words', because you feel they were not demeaned, they didn't feel it!
We don't know - do we.
As I see it, the purpose of a 'Grid Girl' s to be gawped at by men in a sexual manner.
Now you can argue all the periphery that there is, and I think we have on this thread - the women enjoy it, are paid, don't mind, it's a bit of fun, don't stop them working if they want to .... and so on and so on.
But what it comes down to is a basic circumstance -
Grid Girls are there to be gawped at by men, I think we would all agree on that.
As a society, some people believe, and I am one of them - that this attitude towards women is outdated and inappropriate in a culture which is trying to moved away from seeing attractive women as sex objects to be leered at.
I am really not trying to offended on anyone's behalf - I am simply offering my view, and the reasons for it.
It's been interesting.
See you tomorrow.
Prudie - // Andy I'm loathe to get drawn into this but I'm sure you've posted about women in the media that you find hot on several occasions for the sole reason that you find them hot. What's the difference? //
Would I post about women in the media for the sole reason that I find them hot?
Yes I would.
Would I stand ten feet away from any of them as they walked up and down in front of me in a skimpy costume, while I slobbered like an adolescent with personality problems?
No I would not.
That's the difference.
Would I post about women in the media for the sole reason that I find them hot?
Yes I would.
Would I stand ten feet away from any of them as they walked up and down in front of me in a skimpy costume, while I slobbered like an adolescent with personality problems?
No I would not.
That's the difference.
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