Je Ne Suis Pas Charlie

[Khandro]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1409450/queen-elizabeth-ii-news-meghan-markle-charlie-hebdo-cover-oprah-interview-george-floyd

[andy-hughes]

naomi - // Atheist, //I think the ones [Muslims] who go out to kill and be killed are motivated by religious belief. //

They are. //

if you could give me the details of your Mind Reading Of Thousands Of Complete Strangers From Thousands Of Miles Away' course, I'd love to enrol.

Unless of course you want to concede a more realistic position - that you believe that terrorists think of themselves of Muslims, but you have absolutely no idea how true your belief is, so you shouldn't be presenting it as though it is a proven fact.

[pixie374]

I know, Andy. Suggesting seeing or reading something causes a reasonable response of mass murder... is bizarre.

[pixie374]

22:40 naomi, i haven't denied what is being done. The difference is, I called them terrorists, you call them muslims. You even admitted earlier yourself, that individuals are the problem, and that you weren't killing anyone from seeing a cartoon. And that goes for the vast majority of Muslims as well. The minority of violent people will always find an excuse.

[naomi24]

AH, Fact? You mean like the way you presented this statement?
//terrorists are not Muslims, they are psychopaths who like to use the pretence of devout Muslim beliefs as an excuse for their actions//

I suggest you go back to the drawing board and try again.

Pixie, //Suggesting seeing or reading something causes a reasonable response of mass murder... is bizarre.//

Nothing bizarre about it. Islam is what it is.

[pixie374]

Andy, I don't think it matters if they think of themselves that way or not. Their behaviour overrides any "reason" they choose to supply. The Ku Klax Khan are Christians- but a tiny minority who choose to interpret things as they do.

[naomi24]

Piixie, // You even admitted earlier yourself, that individuals are the problem, //

You're making it up again, Pixie. I said nothing of the sort. Islam is the problem - and that I have never denied.

[pixie374]

Humans are what they are too. Most violent criminals are not Muslim. Most Muslims aren't violent. It's quite a stretch to assume Islam causes violence in rational people.

[pixie374]

Making it up lol. Read your own posts- i agreed with you.

[andy-hughes]

naomi - // Nothing bizarre about it. Islam is what it is. //

I am surprised at you coming out with such a meaningless throw-away statement.

Everything and anything 'is what it is' - from cheese to Scientology.

I suspect this is a metaphorical shrug of the shoulders and a 'What can you do? They're all the same ..." attitude which is feankly well beneath your usual debating standards.

I can, and do disagree with you when you argue your point - but this was not doing that.

Back to that drawing board!!!

[Jackdaw33]

Of course they are Muslims, else they would have no reason to kill others. The Koran states that blasphemy is punishable by death and these people are merely putting into practice the words of the book.

[naomi24]

//It's quite a stretch to assume Islam causes violence in rational people. //

Not at all. People's ideas of rationality differ. These people think they're doing what their God wants. It really is that simple.

[pixie374]

//Of course they are Muslims, else they would have no reason to kill others//

Except for all the millions of non-muslims who also do. And... why are most Muslims not murderers, if you are right?

[andy-hughes]

naomi - // Islam is the problem - and that I have never denied. //

You won;t be at all surprised to know that I disagree with that observation.

It's possible to argue that religion is the problem - because most of them are the root of dreadful behaviour somewhere in their history.

But to simply assume that everyone with one faith is to blame for the actions of a tiny minority is lazy thinking, and it does not stand up to even basic scrutiny.

As pixie has advised, no individual faith is the problem, the willingness to twist its interpretations to fit psychopathic behaviour is the problem, and that is not restricted to Islam by any means, as history shows.

[pixie374]

Some do, naomi.... terrorists do.

[naomi24]

AH, my post is not up to your standards, eh? Jolly good. That pleases me immensely. :o)

Incidentally, I've been to the drawing board and back again. Try it.

[naomi24]

Terrorists do what, Pixie? What are you talking about?

[naomi24]

AH, //But to simply assume that everyone with one faith is to blame for the actions of a tiny minority//

That hasn't been suggested.

//As pixie has advised, no individual faith is the problem//

Pixie is mistaken.

[pixie374]

In what way, naomi? You are very quick with the insults and no back up.

[naomi24]

This thread is going off track. The question I would ask is is it justified to take offence at a satirical cartoon when others are condemned for that?

[naomi24]

What insults, Pixie? You're mistaken. That's not an insult. You are.