Did you know this.......?

[goodlife]

The early Christians were persecuted, even as Jesus had been. (John 15:20; 17:14) Historian John L. von Mosheim called first-century Christians “a set of men of the most harmless inoffensive character, who never harboured in their minds a wish or thought inimical to the welfare of the state.” Dr. Mosheim stated that what “irritated the Romans against the Christians, was the simplicity of their worship, which resembled in nothing the sacred rites of any other people.” He added: “They had no sacrifices, temples, images, oracles, or sacerdotal orders; and this was sufficient to bring upon them the reproaches of an ignorant multitude, who imagined that there could be no religion without these. Thus they were looked upon as a sort of atheists; and, by the Roman laws, those who were chargeable with atheism were declared the pests of human society.”

[RATTER15]

Goodlife, \\I would much prefer to think that my ancesters were humans who could think and reason for themselves// [sic]

What you would "Prefer to think" is a little irrelevant. I "prefer" to rely on science and facts!

[beso]

goodlife \\Their choice has brought us to this end and it now needs a higher power than man to solve the problems. //

That is part of the problem I have with the religious. They are just waiting for their God to came and fix it. Consequently they don't care much what happens because it is all going to be perfect later when God magically appears and with a speed of hHis had He put everything right.

The Moslems and Jew share the same vision with the tiny detail of which cult is the one God will promote as the worthy subjects of His new paradise. They seem unperturbed that billions of people see them as the ones who have the story wrong. Such is their strength of faith.

Meanwhile those of us who know that sorting out this mess is up to us because there never will be a God who comes to clean up the mess.

The Christians always have and always will tell us that He is coming very soon. Things are getting worse becuase He just wants to see how really bad we are doing. The last Christian alive will probably still be telling us that when Man is driven to oblivion by failure to address the real issues as we wait for the arrival of the Lord.

Moreover the religious dispute the science that offers the technologies to actually do something to address the problem. Many climate change skeptics are faithfully devoted to God and quite sure the science is wrong.

[naomi24]

Goodlife, //Even inthe medical field man for all his scientific knowledge has not brought about an end to all the diseases. //

Don't you wonder why your God created these diseases in the first place?

//Do you see no people homeless, poverty //

Don't you wonder why your God lied when he said he would provide?

//or millions starving to death?//

Don't you wonder why your God chooses to condemn people to starvation for want of rain?

//Hundreds of thousands died on the battlefields.//

And many of those died on your God's instructions.

Furthermore, much of the horrific conflict we are seeing in the world today is as a direct result of a promise given by your God.

This 'higher power' that you claim exists and that you claim we need to refer to in order to solve the problems of this world clearly has no intention of doing so. This is a creature that purports to care about his creation, but it seems to me he takes great delight in inflicting the greatest suffering possible. Some loving God! Stop dreaming, Goodlife. Open your eyes and face the truth! This non-existent God is a psychopathic monster created in the minds of men!

[goodlife]

What is Truth?

Your hosts of critics, evolutionists, atheists and religionists have toiled relentlessly to try to discredit the truthfulness

So fool yourselves. The end does not justify the means. If you do bad things just because you like bad things, and then you try to excuse yourselves by saying that in the long run good will come from such bad things, you shall not escape.



Yes your attempts to get out from under the blame make about as much sense as did With this generation rapidly developing into what one writer calls the “not-me” generation, this trend may appear to be escalating.

Let say when a ten-year-old boy was asked why he started two fires near his home and there are only atheists around, he will say "an atheist told me"

[jackthehat]

That would make slightly more sense than saying "God told me".....

[goodlife]

well you said it

[jackthehat]

So, it is more reasonable to blame criminal acts on an invisible sky-dwelling being than on flesh and blood humans?

[goodlife]

you said more sense, saying atheist told me

[LazyGun]

@Goodlife - the usual unsubstantiated, evidence fee polemic against science. Modern medicine has saved the lives of thousands, millions of people. To claim that it is somehow a failure because we cannot cure all diseases is just, well, frankly, pretty stupid.

As for wars, plagues, death in their millions - I think most here would point out that the balance weighs far more heavily on the religous and death in gods name, than deaths attributable to fanatical atheists,rampaging and massacreing believers as they go.....!

Your worldview seems irretrievably warped by your faith, and your posts do little to persuade anyone of the intellectual validity of having faith in god.

You dont believe in evolution, yet if you had any undestanding of anatomy or physiology you would know that it is a very poor designer indeed who has settled upon the structure of the eye, or the path of the verterbral artery, or wrapping the prostate gland around the urethra, or the frankly amateurish bipedal design.
You don't believe in modern medicine, unyet we can cure some cancers, set broken bones, create vaccines to protect against some of the more vicious of the natural worlds viruses and bacteria ( and what kind of god would create these sort of lifeforms anyway? a sadistic lunatic?) - Modern medicine which has developed analgesia so we can perform some truly miraculous surgery, organ transplants, blood transfusions, and those just begin to scrape the surface of the modern medical miracles.

You do spout some drivel..............

[Captain Spod]

'The passion with which they will defend this' actually is the altruism of atheists showing the religious that they can live free of the spy in the sky but still in a decent way.

[goodlife]

LazyGun The usual unsubstantiated, evidence fee polemic against science. Modern medicine has saved the lives of thousands, millions of people true. To claim that it is somehow a failure because we cannot cure all diseases is just, well, frankly pretty stupid, why? you talk to know all

As for wars, plagues, death in their millions - I think most here would point out that the balance weighs far more heavily on the religous and death in gods name, than deaths attributable to fanatical atheists,rampaging and massacreing believers as they go.....! No if you read your Bible you see the Bible expresses in a few words the principle involved: “The wicked is a ransom for the righteous one; and the one dealing treacherously takes the place of the upright ones.” (Prov. 21:18) In other words, the only way that upright ones can have true enjoyment of life as the Creator purposed is for the wicked to pay with their lives—all the wicked. Clear them out of the way so that they will not hinder righteousness in the earth! But who is to determine who are the wicked ones? and who is able to clear them out for earth’s benefit? None of men’s wars have yet done that, for even if fought for a right cause they are not selective but kill indiscriminately both those who are good and those who are bad and sometimes spare the most wicked ones. Nonetheless, the Bible principle still remains firm. Such a war must be fought. It is very easy to see that the direction and execution of the war would have to be by someone with far more wisdom and power than man has.

It is interesting that scientists do not view aging and death as inevitable, but rather as a disease they hope to cure. “I can see no reason,” said biochemist William Beck, “why death, in the nature of things, need be inevitable.” World-famous medical scientist Hans Selye pointed out that “aging can be regarded as a disease,” and that, “like any other disease, it is probably preventable or curable.” According to Nobel Prize winner Dr. Linus Pauling: “Theoretically man is quite immortal. His bodily tissues replace themselves. He is a self-repairing machine.” Yet, despite the potential of endless life, men continue to die. why?

[naomi24]

Goodlife, you haven't addressed a single issue I've raised, but I'm not surprised because there is no defence, and so your only recourse is to attack the messenger.

You ask 'what is truth', but if you believe in your God, as you claim to, then rationally you must concede that as universal creator he is directly responsible for all of the above. He created man together with all his failings, he created disease, he created drought and famine, he directly ordered the slaughter of thousands of men, women, children - and animals - and he created, through an alleged promise, the horrendous conflict and separation the world is currently experiencing. That, to you, should be the truth, but you deny it because it doesn't fit the skewed information that someone else has filled your head with. The only person I see here trying to 'get out from under the blame' is you on behalf of your God.

I presume your last sentence is supposed to illustrate that all atheists must necessarily be bad, but actually that serves only to illustrate your ignorance of the world. Take a look at some of the Humanist aid organisations - and then tell me all atheists are bad. I might be wrong, but I strongly suspect they're doing a damn sight more than you for people desperately in need of help - but I suppose they shall not escape either? And your God is a just God who loves mankind? How does that work then?

Goodlife, you spend your life telling everyone else how enlightened you are, and dwelling upon death and the eventual fate of your sorry soul, but in reality belief in this God amounts to nothing more than intellectual cowardice because it is an abrogation of personal responsibility. You refuse to confront the stark reality that is staring you in the face - in black and white in your bible - choosing instead to waste your life living in fear of absolutely nothing. If there is a God, it's not him! Read your bible - and read what's really there!

[LazyGun]

@Goodlife - So, your belief in your god allows you to contemplate with equanimity the slaughter of thousands, or millions, based upon them being classed as "wicked"? You really are a bloodthirsty lot, arent you?

More than anything else, it is this casual disregard for life that irritates me most about those fundamentalist believers, such as you. I find it repugnant that you can regard a massacre with such dispassion - and it is from your values that we should derive the value of wicked? I think not....

As for your other comments about ageing and death- once again, i think this says more about your ignorance of science and medicine than it reveals any kind of truth about what the scientific establishment thinks about mortality. You again attempt to "argue from authority" by supposedly enlisting Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling to your cause - but brilliant as he might have been when it came to chemistry, he was something of a fruitloop when it came to medicine.

Why on earth you think it is somehow a bad thing that medicine is studying ageing and death in an effort to improve quality of life and delay onset beats me, except that it would seem you hold life on earth to be cheap.

[beso]

goodlife //the only way that upright ones can have true enjoyment of life as the Creator purposed is for the wicked to pay with their lives—all the wicked. Clear them out of the way so that they will not hinder righteousness in the earth! But who is to determine who are the wicked ones? and who is able to clear them out for earth’s benefit?//

Exactly as I have pointed out many times, the faithful eagerly await Armageddon where all those who don't bow down to their Lord will be murdered.

Far from being the supposed way of tolerance and grace, the foundations of the Abrahamic Faiths lie in bigotry, prejudice and deep seated intolerance.

Like countless other forms of fascism their way always involves death as the solution to every problem. The supposed inadequacies of Man to govenrn himself are not due to a lack of God but are epitomised as the way to deal with conflict in the Bible and other holy books.

With half the population of the planet subscribing to the worship of Abraham's Monster it is little wonder we find ourselves in a world fraught with conflict.

The solution can not come through a grand massacre overseen by a brutal deity that demands complete servitude but by expunging the mental illness that is religion.

I have no intention of respecting the religious belifs of those like goodlife who eagerly await their Final Solution.

[goodlife]

So you atheists - what do you say is good and bad or wicked"?
And Lazygun you got the name, seem you hold life on earth to be cheap,come off my book, what does your good book say than

Birdir, Prayer without doubt, is the most common of all religious practices. The religious man, whether an Australian aborigine or a modern scientist, makes use of prayer. Hindu and African voodoo worshipers, Moslems and Jews, Catholics and Protestants, as well as the Christian witnesses of Jehovah, all pray. Indicative of the interest in the subject is the fact that in the one library of a well-known theological seminary there are 1,200 books on the subject, good question?

beso Yes, see your confused and might have difficulty today in understanding life in the seventeenth century and how it could be possible for those calling themselves Christians to show such bigotry and intolerance. But religion was like that then because they were not really Christian. “Humanity was no part of its special teaching. It must indeed be allowed that religion was then associated with the rack, the stake, the burning town, the massacre of women and children, the hate that never dies, the wrongs that can never be avenged.”

[RATTER15]

Oh dear! it doesnt get any better lol :)

[beso]

goodlife //And Lazygun you got the name, seem you hold life on earth to be cheap,come off my book, what does your good book say than //

It isn't about one book versus another, one detiy versus another or a personality cult based on a "prophet". All that is rubbish indulged in by the religious.

It is about rational behaviours built on logical conclusions arrived through analysis of facts.

You quote your book ad nausium but never address the questions put to you.

[beso]

goodlife //beso Yes, see your confused and might have difficulty today in understanding life in the seventeenth century and how it could be possible for those calling themselves Christians to show such bigotry and intolerance. But religion was like that then because they were not really Christian. //

goodlife // In other words, the only way that upright ones can have true enjoyment of life as the Creator purposed is for the wicked to pay with their lives—all the wicked. Clear them out of the way so that they will not hinder righteousness in the earth! But who is to determine who are the wicked ones? and who is able to clear them out for earth’s benefit? None of men’s wars have yet done that, for even if fought for a right cause they are not selective but kill indiscriminately both those who are good and those who are bad and sometimes spare the most wicked ones. Nonetheless, the Bible principle still remains firm. Such a war must be fought. //

And you can't see the similarities between historical atttitues and your eagerly awaited Armageddon?

I would not trust you in times of turmoil. You are prone to hysteria and I could easily image you taking to God's slaughter if you thought the End Game was on.

Such violence goes back to the earliest parts of the Bible and is lauded right through to your Final Solution.

[naomi24]

Goodlife: from Beso: //You quote your book ad nausium but never address the questions put to you. //

I second that.