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Islam And Marriage
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What does Islam have to say about Muslim men marrying non-muslim men who are not "people of the book" ( ie christian or jewish?)
What does Islam have to say about Muslim women marrying non-muslim men? and what reason does it give for this guidance?
What religion should the children of a marriage between a muslim man and a non-muslim female be brought up in? Or should they be allowed to choose for themselves?
There you go, Lightbulb - separate thread. What does your religion tell you about these issues?
What does Islam have to say about Muslim women marrying non-muslim men? and what reason does it give for this guidance?
What religion should the children of a marriage between a muslim man and a non-muslim female be brought up in? Or should they be allowed to choose for themselves?
There you go, Lightbulb - separate thread. What does your religion tell you about these issues?
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Lightbulb, //the reason men can marry other religions is because muslim cannot marry people who associate idols with god, like hindus. If a women marries a hindu she may be pressureised into becoming hindu, which is totally the opposite of islamic belief.//
That makes no sense. Hinduism isn't an issue. We've already established that Muslim men can marry 'people of the book'. The question is why can't women?
That makes no sense. Hinduism isn't an issue. We've already established that Muslim men can marry 'people of the book'. The question is why can't women?
So you argument in support of this distinction between whom muslim men can marry and who muslim females can marry is this?
"If a women marries a hindu she may be pressureised into becoming hindu, which is totally the opposite of islamic belief."
In other words, women are too weak and feeble to withstand the pressure? Why should women be any less resilient than men to pressure to convert?
You cannot defend faith based sexist teachings by claiming that the faith offers "equal but different" roles. Evangelical Christianity tries to offer the same defence also, which is equally wrong.
Both religions practice Patriarchal mysogyny - that males know best, and it is males that lay down the law.
And what does the Islamic teachings about women dressing modestly tell us? Firstly, it is women who have to take the burden - it is they who have to observe all the rules regarding what constitutes modest dress. And why? Because Islamic teaching has it that all males are uncontrollable beasts, slaves to their own lusts, unable to control themselves if they see a womans face, or ankle, or hairdo. Its mysogyny again.
Why should the issue of whether children can result from a sexual union be any business of religion? What do Islamic teachings have to say if a woman is sterile? Should the marriage be voided, the woman cast aside?
"If a women marries a hindu she may be pressureised into becoming hindu, which is totally the opposite of islamic belief."
In other words, women are too weak and feeble to withstand the pressure? Why should women be any less resilient than men to pressure to convert?
You cannot defend faith based sexist teachings by claiming that the faith offers "equal but different" roles. Evangelical Christianity tries to offer the same defence also, which is equally wrong.
Both religions practice Patriarchal mysogyny - that males know best, and it is males that lay down the law.
And what does the Islamic teachings about women dressing modestly tell us? Firstly, it is women who have to take the burden - it is they who have to observe all the rules regarding what constitutes modest dress. And why? Because Islamic teaching has it that all males are uncontrollable beasts, slaves to their own lusts, unable to control themselves if they see a womans face, or ankle, or hairdo. Its mysogyny again.
Why should the issue of whether children can result from a sexual union be any business of religion? What do Islamic teachings have to say if a woman is sterile? Should the marriage be voided, the woman cast aside?
Lightbulb - //when they are of age, they can choose their religion.//
You understand perfectly well the point LG was making. At what age can they chose their religion. 14, 16, 18.
If the answer is around these figures then they have had that many years indoctrination. Judging by the way Muslims such as yourself cling to your religion I would say your comment was meaningless and disingenuous.
You understand perfectly well the point LG was making. At what age can they chose their religion. 14, 16, 18.
If the answer is around these figures then they have had that many years indoctrination. Judging by the way Muslims such as yourself cling to your religion I would say your comment was meaningless and disingenuous.
//And what does the Islamic teachings about women dressing modestly tell us? Firstly, it is women who have to take the burden - it is they who have to observe all the rules regarding what constitutes modest dress. And why? Because Islamic teaching has it that all males are uncontrollable beasts, slaves to their own lusts, unable to control themselves if they see a womans face, or ankle, or hairdo. Its mysogyny again. //
firstly, there are also rules for how men must dress as well, it is not only females.
firstly, there are also rules for how men must dress as well, it is not only females.
firstly the quran does not actually state to cover your face, that is a thing done mostly in the middle east. Yes, it states to women to cover their head, but not their face.
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in case you do not read it, it says men must cover their area from their navel to their knees. They should cover their shoulders and torso if they can. Pants and lower grments should be above the ankle. cannot wear gold or silk.
http://
in case you do not read it, it says men must cover their area from their navel to their knees. They should cover their shoulders and torso if they can. Pants and lower grments should be above the ankle. cannot wear gold or silk.
@Lightbulb
"White caucausian males often top the list of pedophiles and rapists. coincidence?"
More illogic. Where do white caucasian males top the list of pedophiles and rapists? In Pakistan? Afghanistan? Nigeria? And have we seen cases of muslim men "grooming" young white female children for sex? Why, yes we have?
So thats that point blown out of the water and utterly refuted.
And on the point of modest dress
"and secondly the quran doesnt just expect women to cover up, it says to men to "shift your gaze", so men should not stare if they see a women. "
The teachings still posit that a man will become inflamed with ungovernable lust if they catch sight of a womans face/hairdo/ whathaveyou.
And it is still women that are held most responsible for dressing modestly.
Okay, a few other points.
What does Islamic teaching tell us should happen should a woman not dress as modestly as an Imam/ husband/family wants?
None of your statements to date in defence of Islamic teaching alter the objective fact that such teachings are sexist.
"White caucausian males often top the list of pedophiles and rapists. coincidence?"
More illogic. Where do white caucasian males top the list of pedophiles and rapists? In Pakistan? Afghanistan? Nigeria? And have we seen cases of muslim men "grooming" young white female children for sex? Why, yes we have?
So thats that point blown out of the water and utterly refuted.
And on the point of modest dress
"and secondly the quran doesnt just expect women to cover up, it says to men to "shift your gaze", so men should not stare if they see a women. "
The teachings still posit that a man will become inflamed with ungovernable lust if they catch sight of a womans face/hairdo/ whathaveyou.
And it is still women that are held most responsible for dressing modestly.
Okay, a few other points.
What does Islamic teaching tell us should happen should a woman not dress as modestly as an Imam/ husband/family wants?
None of your statements to date in defence of Islamic teaching alter the objective fact that such teachings are sexist.
@Lightbulb Just working my way through the rules and regulations on how to dress.
Some commentary invites the charge of criticism. The text itself says that the dress restrictions are much less severe for men than women. Why?
It goes on to say this;
"Men are attracted to several aspects of a woman’s body. Even her legs and thighs are considered sex objects. But the same is not true for men."
Nonsense. Ask any woman. And again the subtext is that men will turn into uncontrollable beasts if they are afforded even a sense that a woman might actually have, you know, 2 legs.
It just reeks of patriarchal mysogyny.
Why is gold and silk seen as effiminate? Why is a religion making judgements on this? What precisely is effiminate about, say. a gold silk tie? Why should a religious text inform what people choose to wear?
This I just plain do not understand;
"Men should also wear their pants, or lower garment, above their ankles. This is to protect their clothes dragging in filth, and to prevent arrogant behavior. " Ok, well the first bit makes sense I suppose - but how does wearing trousers or pants below your ankles impel arrogant behaviour?
Why are women "forbidden" to wear clothing similar to males?
What happens to women who break these restrictions?
And referring to an earlier post; What happens to a woman who is sterile? Is her marriage voided?
So many of those cultural practices that could be considered sexist to women can be found in interpretations of your holy book.
Take the Afghani Taliban for instance. Women were most definitely treated as second class citizens, and that impulse was derived from religious interpretation that women should live in purdah.
Some commentary invites the charge of criticism. The text itself says that the dress restrictions are much less severe for men than women. Why?
It goes on to say this;
"Men are attracted to several aspects of a woman’s body. Even her legs and thighs are considered sex objects. But the same is not true for men."
Nonsense. Ask any woman. And again the subtext is that men will turn into uncontrollable beasts if they are afforded even a sense that a woman might actually have, you know, 2 legs.
It just reeks of patriarchal mysogyny.
Why is gold and silk seen as effiminate? Why is a religion making judgements on this? What precisely is effiminate about, say. a gold silk tie? Why should a religious text inform what people choose to wear?
This I just plain do not understand;
"Men should also wear their pants, or lower garment, above their ankles. This is to protect their clothes dragging in filth, and to prevent arrogant behavior. " Ok, well the first bit makes sense I suppose - but how does wearing trousers or pants below your ankles impel arrogant behaviour?
Why are women "forbidden" to wear clothing similar to males?
What happens to women who break these restrictions?
And referring to an earlier post; What happens to a woman who is sterile? Is her marriage voided?
So many of those cultural practices that could be considered sexist to women can be found in interpretations of your holy book.
Take the Afghani Taliban for instance. Women were most definitely treated as second class citizens, and that impulse was derived from religious interpretation that women should live in purdah.
Andres - Thanks for replying. Off topic and my apologies to all. My father wasn't religious at all but my mother was a devout catholic. They got married in 1948 in a CofE church in Longsight Manchester. They had no problems from relatives and friends as far as I'm aware.
The only consequence that I know of was my Mother couldn't take Communion because in the eyes of the church she was unwed. We were brought up as catholics and in 1963 my Father (unknown to Mum) went to see the local priest and arranged to convert. He had to go to lessons once a week for 6 weeks and was then accepted. As stated they were then re-married.
The only consequence that I know of was my Mother couldn't take Communion because in the eyes of the church she was unwed. We were brought up as catholics and in 1963 my Father (unknown to Mum) went to see the local priest and arranged to convert. He had to go to lessons once a week for 6 weeks and was then accepted. As stated they were then re-married.
Lightbulb, you’ve ignored my question twice…. but perhaps you’re thinking about that… so to the question of clothing. On another thread, I gave you these two examples of the same verse – with no response from you – so I’ll try again.
//O Prophet, enjoin your wives and your daughters and the believing women, to draw a part of their outer coverings around them.….//
//O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way).…..//
I won’t ask you if men are advised to do the same because I know they’re not – and you know they’re not. You are disingenuous, Lightbulb.
//O Prophet, enjoin your wives and your daughters and the believing women, to draw a part of their outer coverings around them.….//
//O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way).…..//
I won’t ask you if men are advised to do the same because I know they’re not – and you know they’re not. You are disingenuous, Lightbulb.
Lightbulb. Let me first of tell you as a Muslim who has been around this website for over 7 years that all of these questions has been asked before by the same people so many times and as many times have been answered too. But as certain things do not agree with how they believe or see the life then they never agreed and never will. So with due respect you have to understand when to say that this is what it is and you people do not have to act upon whatever it is as it has nothing to with you. No Muslim will come and ask you to cover, marry (or do not marry) to anyone you like. These people are doomed and they have been going round and round in circles for at least 7 years I have seen. They work as a team and do shift work (few doing around the clock service, that how much they are committed to their faith) , and will keep on bombarding you with same questions again and again and does not matter how many times you answer, the final question would always be that you have not answered the question. And that is for a very simple reason that they know the answer they believe in according to their faith of no faith and only that is what they would accept.
not sure if i posted this on here before but
any way here goes
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any way here goes
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